To get him the bare minimum for Christmas?

[JollyStreet]

My DS has full custody of my grandson (14), he works as a HGV driver and obviously isn't home all the time so he moved in with me (only an hour away from where he was living) but on days my son isn't working he goes back to my son. Or that was the plan.

He started a new school in January, he was previously in private school (that I paid for) but lost his place due to behaviour. He's now in a state school and probably not one of the best but that's the only place we could get him in, if he didn't lose his place he would still be attending. But he acts like everyone else is at fault.

He's had at least one day a week off since September, sometimes more just due to him refusing. When he's there he misbehaves, he's had over 100 behaviour points (negative) since September. It's not a sudden change either as he was like this last academic year too.

His behaviour isn't limited to school either, I found out he watched violent porn, he was adamant it wasn't him but he's the only person with access to his phone bar myself and my son, he's managed to get around it anyway and now deletes his search history.

He started going to a youth club and in the summer I found messages between him and a girl that also attended, I'm unsure how old she is I think about 15. She told him she was pregnant, myself and my son spoke to him and he denied it, he said they hadn't even had sex and she was “obsessed” with him and a bunch of misogynistic rubbish. I notified his school but she doesn't attend so there wasn't much they can do, they haven't said much about the school refusal either, just he needs to be in. They don't have very good pastoral staff.

I've tried early help but it isn't “severe” enough so they closed the case.

When my son once tried to get him in by taking his things he hit him, he lied about my son hitting him and he threatened to report him as he had bruises. So its hard to push to much as I believe my son didn't do it but I don't think social services or the police would think like that and he could lose his job etc. So I'm worried about pushing him too far. He's started refusing to go back to his dads because he just wants to play on his PC, here.

He hasn't been in since Thursday, I took his phone last night due to other behaviour and he stole some wine and drank it all (either half of it or just under half, in unsure on how much was actually left) and he asked what it feels like to be stolen from. This isn't the first time he's stolen alcohol and perhaps it was my own fault for having it in the house.

There's more but this post is long enough, I'm thinking of just getting him the bare minimum for Christmas like shower gel etc and nothing he's asked for and nothing “fun” due to his behaviour but I don't know how reasonable that would be as it's Christmas. His birthday is a few days after too but I have a feeling he won't be grateful for anything he receives. I'm doing all the Christmas shopping for him including from my son but he's giving me the money.

Also, please don't say he needs to go back to my son, it's just not possible with his work as he's sometimes away for days at a time.

This is a very troubled boy who is struggling, and who comes from a clearly difficult up bringing; having seen similar with my brother, I would strongly advise you not to engage in this petty behaviour of trying to make him miserable at Xmas. But treat him with love, show him he’s cared about, and continue to try to foster a good relationship with him.

hes got shit parents, who have both failed him. Don’t you show him the apple didn’t fall far from the tree and you’re the same.

Honestly OP, your DS needs to focus on getting a different job so he can live full time with his son. No, your DGS’s behaviour won’t transform overnight, but his dad needs to be around to help work things out.

Your DGS is on a path that he needs help steered away from. But it will take a lot of love and good parenting. No it won’t be easy, and it might be too late to repair things but your DGS deserves the effort.

Christmas presents aren’t the question here (but no, don’t deliberately punish him by getting him shit presents).

You say his dad has full custody, but he doesn't does he @JollyStreet ? He is not there half the time. As a pp pointed out, that just wouldn't be an option for a single mum.

Noting will change unless the people around him change.

My suggestion, if your son has any care for his son at all, is your son leaves his job and moves in with you for the moment. He has 4 years until his son is legally an adult, only 4 short years!

Can you explain a bit more about his mum? It seems like this boy really needs her.

I think he needs to feel loved at Christmas and on his birthday. Some people use these occasions as a weapon and the golden opportunity for punishment and to make a point, but I think it will actually do more harm than good and you won’t be thanking yourself for it.
If he’s in a bad place then a rubbish Christmas orchestrated by you, will just push him further down and it will be a never ending vicious cycle for him.

You actually have the opportunity to make him happy and try make Christmas a really positive time for him, and you want to use it as a way to punish him. I know which I would choose.

My son is 14. He’s been suffering, he’s refused to go to school. He’s been acting out at home. Everyone around me kept telling me to punish him and ostracise him and not make a fuss of him on his birthday and Christmas. I was like no way.
If I’d have followed their ways then he I think he would be in a much worse place than where he is now. I wanted to make it known to him that he is still worthy of enjoying things, which is actually a key way of helping him out of the bad place he is in. If everything is negative negative negative then he will be negative negative negative. It’s always so rewarding when my son smiles at me and comes in to the room to talk to me. I know we’re slowly making progress and I think that is partly down to me never being harsh on him when he was at his worst.

It sounds to me like your grandson needs firm boundaries but also lots of love and stability. I think you or his dad need to pay for private help, would joint family therapy be something you can consider so you can all talk openly?

Can his father reach out to his mother to re establish contact between them? How involved is his dad in sorting this out? I can see why your grandson is hurt, his mum wants nothing to do with him and his dad works away and doesn’t seem to be doing much. He probably feels the world hates him.

Do you do much as a family? Has his dad genuinely stepped up or just left it to you?

I would look at getting your grandson into an activity to give him some consistency, confidence building and discipline like the air or army cadets or even scouting. Having access to a phone, pocket money or Wi-Fi would be contingent on him attending and not getting into trouble there, attending therapy and behaving at school. At the same time I would be increasing the time you spend together as a family whilst giving him some options as to what you all do and take an interest in him.

Also is there a reason he is misbehaving at school such as dyslexia, bad ache sight or something like that? Has he gotten so far behind with his studies that he is lost but embarrassed to ask for help?

Yep. Exactly this. He's just viewed as a problem child. He needs some kind of mental health input by the sounds of it and some positivity in his life

I don’t know you, your family or how you really feel, and I wouldn’t normally comment on threads like this….but this has made me really upset.
He’s acting this way as he is very distressed most likely….and then you say on top of that as a punishment that you’ll deliberately give him a shitty Christmas?
That won’t make him reflect “on the error of his ways” it will likely make him feel and act even worse
However hard it is he needs nurturing and someone, anyone, to be really kind. I know kindness doesn’t = lots presents, and goodness knows you are trying, and you probably are very kind to him and at the end of your tether.
But please just hold your frustration on this one and don’t give him a terrible Christmas out of frustration, it won’t work.
Keep the faith, keep kind and you’ll win through.

There is a desperately unhappy and vulnerable little boy underneath this gangly teenage bravado.

I feel so sad for this child, he has no one in his corner who cares enough (or perhaps is emotionally mature enough) to understand and support this.

Raising a child is a little bit like training a dog, if you dont get it right from the very start it ends up expensive and damn near impossible to fix the behaviour problems without significant effort.

You will just keep sniping at him, he'll end up a train wreck. And around the circle goes again.

The mother is clearly not interested so your comment is unhelpful.

Would you tell a single mother that the child needs his deadbeat dad? The sentiment on here is usually the opposite and that all contact needs to be cut.

You should let your son know you will give the private school money to him, say 1k per month to offset lower income from another job, say self employed taxi driving where he picks his own hours, and can be present at mornings and evenings. You could have grandson at weekends so son could pull in extra shifts then, should he need to.

By moving the financial support so that your son can be more present for your grandson, you will make a really deep impact on outcome