To get him the bare minimum for Christmas?

[JollyStreet]

My DS has full custody of my grandson (14), he works as a HGV driver and obviously isn't home all the time so he moved in with me (only an hour away from where he was living) but on days my son isn't working he goes back to my son. Or that was the plan.

He started a new school in January, he was previously in private school (that I paid for) but lost his place due to behaviour. He's now in a state school and probably not one of the best but that's the only place we could get him in, if he didn't lose his place he would still be attending. But he acts like everyone else is at fault.

He's had at least one day a week off since September, sometimes more just due to him refusing. When he's there he misbehaves, he's had over 100 behaviour points (negative) since September. It's not a sudden change either as he was like this last academic year too.

His behaviour isn't limited to school either, I found out he watched violent porn, he was adamant it wasn't him but he's the only person with access to his phone bar myself and my son, he's managed to get around it anyway and now deletes his search history.

He started going to a youth club and in the summer I found messages between him and a girl that also attended, I'm unsure how old she is I think about 15. She told him she was pregnant, myself and my son spoke to him and he denied it, he said they hadn't even had sex and she was “obsessed” with him and a bunch of misogynistic rubbish. I notified his school but she doesn't attend so there wasn't much they can do, they haven't said much about the school refusal either, just he needs to be in. They don't have very good pastoral staff.

I've tried early help but it isn't “severe” enough so they closed the case.

When my son once tried to get him in by taking his things he hit him, he lied about my son hitting him and he threatened to report him as he had bruises. So its hard to push to much as I believe my son didn't do it but I don't think social services or the police would think like that and he could lose his job etc. So I'm worried about pushing him too far. He's started refusing to go back to his dads because he just wants to play on his PC, here.

He hasn't been in since Thursday, I took his phone last night due to other behaviour and he stole some wine and drank it all (either half of it or just under half, in unsure on how much was actually left) and he asked what it feels like to be stolen from. This isn't the first time he's stolen alcohol and perhaps it was my own fault for having it in the house.

There's more but this post is long enough, I'm thinking of just getting him the bare minimum for Christmas like shower gel etc and nothing he's asked for and nothing “fun” due to his behaviour but I don't know how reasonable that would be as it's Christmas. His birthday is a few days after too but I have a feeling he won't be grateful for anything he receives. I'm doing all the Christmas shopping for him including from my son but he's giving me the money.

Also, please don't say he needs to go back to my son, it's just not possible with his work as he's sometimes away for days at a time.

Your son needs to look look look for a new job, as in keep trying- delivery driving jobs for supermarkets etc. op I know your gs is not your son but you need to start listening to your gs more- the how does it feel etc- it just all sounds like he needs parenting. He hasn’t his dad all the time and no mum, he needs a good Christmas more than anyone. It’s great you’ve stepped up but he needs family and love and someone to talk to. Bluntly why gives a shit what school he’s in etc, are they talking to you about how he is? My ds had a tough year and life became all about turning him back into being a kid. Also he needs to have a talk about sex and ye need to figure out what the truths are and the lies. But most of all he needs his dad. Better an unemployed fully present dad than an absent well employed one. Your sole goal has to be getting him through this tough time and showing him love. To answer your question give him a shit Christmas purposely then you’ll lose him

Yes, you should buy him proper Christmas presents, no need to go OTT but get him some things he likes.

Why have you not answered about where his mum is?

Are you spending Christmas with him and your son?

He's at that age and hormones are raging. He will have issues about his mum, regardless of how loved he is, and obviously we don't know why she is not in his life, but he will feel rejected and hurt. Then with dad working away, I may have missed it in previous thread but does dad sleep out when he is working? There are a lot of agencies crying out for HGV, a lot without overnights.

Poor lad is acting up due to trauma and has gone from mum I presume, to dads and then to grans, he will be feeling rejected. He needs to be reassured that he matters and that he is loved.

I would not take it out on him by getting him the bare minimum for Christmas, imagine him feeling like no one cares and then you get him a one crappy present.

With regards to his phone, what type of phone is it? My youngest had an iphone which I had on my account and I could restrict what sites he could go and block some from my phone. There are ways to safeguard.

I think you are focussing on the wrong thing (Xmas gift punishment). Why has he still got privileges like a phone if he abuses it? What were the consequences for being kicked out of school? Why are you relying on school pastoral staff when it is your son’scresponsibility to ensure he is in school? Why is your son not directly involved? Answer those Qs and you’ll start to see a way through: actions must have consequences.

Exactly this. I sympathise with the OP but it’s a very her/her son-centred view (their holiday was “ruined” etc) whereas the focus needs to be on the grandson and his needs.

I can hear that you feel exhausted and overwhelmed by the situation and are reacting punitively, whilst understandable as so many other people have pointed out this isn't going to work. Your grandson needs nurture, connection and to feel claimed by his family. I hear your frustrations that he doesn't want to engage with counselling, many children don't, particularly teenage boys - the best way often we can support children is through our parenting approach - so actually if you or more importantly his father can utilise a therapeutic parenting approach you can help him feel safe and cared for which will help his behaviours. You need to understand that behaviours are a form of communication and he is telling you how unhappy he is. Alongside all the other pps who said there needs to be some fundamental changes for him with his dad prioritising him, I would also reach out to school and consider what support services are available for your grandson and to support you/his father.

I think your grandson needs a therapist, clearly something more serious is at play. In your position I would have followed up with the child who he got pregnant. Your GS is on a worrying path and I don’t think christmas presents have much to do with anything.

There’s a few issues here that might be easier to see the wood through the trees if you separated them out:

your sons job is incompatible with his parental duties, it took a while to get this job so it’s not as easy as change jobs, but he should be actively looking, he’s got a good trade and something will come along eventually.

Dgs watching porn. Absolute no no. The phone needs to be completely locked down and restricted.

School refusal. There are many many threads on here about how to handle this, it’s really tough. Personally I would aim to not allow him any computer/phone access if he is avoiding school but this does not alway work. Ask the school for help again, keep at it. Keep trying with the therapy if you can, make sure he knows you get that it’s hard for him and you’ll support him getting the therapy when he’s ready to engage.

As For the Christmas thing, get him gifts but don’t go overboard. If he’s asked for PS games and you get him a Linx body wash this will not have the effect you want, it will be all he remembers and a bucket load of resentment mixed with a swimming pool load of teenage hormones and childhood trauma is a recipe for disaster.

Does he have any plans for adulthood, he can’t focus on exams right now as his head is too full with other things but when he’s calm it’s worth having a positive conversation about what he’ll need to get into fire service, trades etc. don’t word it well you’ll need to work hard to get x,y,z let him do the work to work it out say ooh that’s a good idea what sort of things do you need to do to get there etc.

Is there anything positive in his life? Everything sounds negative. His mother isn't on the scene, his father isn't around. You're the back up plan but have become the main carer. He must know that arrangement isn't ideal. There's bad behaviour, punishment, disinterest from the school. Is there anything positive at all? He's a prime target for going down a misogynistic worm hole on line. Personally, no, I wouldn't get him the bare minimum at Christmas. It will just add fuel to the fire of him feeling rejected.

He was staying at his previous school, the only reason he started a new school was due to his behaviour at the private school and he lost his place, he had many warnings prior to this.

I don't see how my son getting another job would fix this, he's exactly the same when he's with my son, he's hit my son previously when he tried getting him to go to school and has lied about him hitting him which wasn't true. He's now started refusing to even go there.

Just because he was at a private school doesn't mean I'm made of money, the state secondary schools aren't good schools around here so we wanted to avoid that but he's obviously at a state school now. I don't have the money to throw away if he's just not going to engage and tbh I don't want to after what happened with the school.

Must be difficult for him ,going from private to state school..on top of moving home and living with different family members .
I get it's not your problem because he's not your child ..but somehow it has ended up being your problem
How often is he seeing dad and mum
Do you feel confident managing him ..or are you feeling out of your depth.
Have you tried talking to him ,to find out what he needs and what his issues with school are..is he well supported at school ,or needing extra help

This ☝️

He's being blamed but noone is looking or asking why he's acting up, there will be a reason.

He's been passed about and noone seems to approve or properly care about him or what he does.

The adults need to sort themselves out and communicate with the child or if they can't, which seems very likely then find someone that he can talk to. Take responsibility for him for goodness sake

No one really seems to have provided him with any stability in his life.

Does he have friends who have been in his life long-term? Or did he lose all his friends with the school move?

He doesn't have strong parental relationships, he doesn't have a stable home, he doesn't have educational stability, he feels like a nuisance and he's receiving a constant message of not being good enough.

Where is the nurture?

If I sat down and wrote myself a manual on how to mess up my child, I might include a lot of this.

You all need to start seeing his life through his eyes and think about how you can help him to make it better.

You have bigger things to worry about than Christmas presents.

It sounds like there's a huge backstory and his behaviour to me seems like a reflection of past trauma.

What has happened to him? Where is his mum?

I’m getting a little confused with the relationship between your son and grandson. Did your son hit grandson? Grandson is currently refusing to stay at his dad’s?

if this is the case you are literally the only safe standard in grandsons life, yes he’s acting out, he has no one he feels he can trust. You give a long list of things he has done wrong and this is your focus, to punish with soap for Christmas. Have you got any support yourself. Do you want to try and help him through this.

I'm sorry but the way you talk about him and his relationship with his dad makes this poor boy sound unloved. I sympathise with you for having to manage his challenging behaviour on your own, but behaviour is communication after all.

Your grandson is deeply hurt/angry about something and needs support. Yes, it's tough if he's unwilling to engage with professionals, but maybe start with small changes at home. Do you ever praise him, or act pleased to see him? Tell him that you love him? Take notice of his interests? See through his behavioural problems?

Try to emphasise his good qualities (even if you have to use your imagination here). Communicate to him that you think he's a good person and that you are happy to have him in your life/home (even if that's not always true) and that you will always be there for him. Given that he doesn't have much contact with either of his parents, he might feel rejected, insecure, and as though he is inherently 'bad', so is acting the part.

I cannot express enough how irreparably damaging it would be to use Xmas as a punishment. You will make him spiral further.

Ok I'm a bleeding heart, but that poor boy.

He needs killing with kindness, not this.

"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"

If my son were behaving like this, I would be worried sick about him and doing everything in my power to get to the bottom of it. He sounds bitterly unhappy and very angry. He needs professional support. I don’t think what you do or don’t buy him for Christmas is going to move the dial at all.

This...

It sounds an absolutely miserable situation, for all of you. he really needs some stability and a constant in his life, your son could do with a more stable job as the poor boy is just being pushed from pillar to post.

My grandson hit my son, and another occasion he lied about my son hitting him. He also lied to my son about me calling him fat (which i never have done).

The school have put him on report due to his behaviour but yesterday he got all negatives and he used homophobic language so he's now in isolation today. I've tried being nice and asking why he behaves like this and grounding him etc but it doesn't do anything. His friends from his old school have drifted from him due to his behaviour and them wanting to focus on their exams.

He's asked for a new phone and things which I just don't think he deserves right now

How many times does everyone have to write that clearly he’s incredibly unhappy, he doesn’t like himself, he doesn’t feel loveable so he’s not going to care how he behaves and if the rest of the world, including friends dislike him. He’s got parents who to him don’t appear to love him, want him around or like him, he won’t care if the rest of the world doesn’t. Asking him will do nothing. He doesn’t understand himself, he’s not got the emotional intelligence to even know where to begin. Every negative thing against him just confirms his deep underlying feelings that he’s the problem.

I’m far from a soft touch and every post I read that you write I just think this poor kid has no one believing in him or loving him, literally just constantly showing him that everything he feels deep inside is true.

So you haven't listened to anything anyone's said....

Do you have time to warn him if he doesn't buck his ideas up he will not be getting a lot for Xmas? At least then he has a warm up to it and you won't blame yourself x I feel for you as no one likes the idea of not treating someone at christmas but in this case it may just reinforce his bad behaviour x and if he doesn't improve it's not that you won't get him anything he just won't be spoilt or treated xx

I used to work with teens like this, including boys who fit this exact description. Beneath it all they were in a state of anxiety and emotional distress, severely disconnected from their parents/caregivers. It manifests as aggression and defiance, pushing people away, etc. But really they are trying to mask a deep sense of vulnerability and low self esteem.

You have received a lot of good advice on here and it would be such a shame if you still thought that asking your grandson why he's acting like this (a question he won't be able to answer) and dishing out punishments is a suitable way of dealing with this.

You (and most importantly his dad) need to be exploring the root cause of his distress, such as his possible feelings of vulnerability, low self esteem and rejection, and working on strategies to make him feel more emotionally secure. I know it's incredibly hard, but it is your responsibility as the one constant adult in his life to be his cheerleader.

Poor kid. Neither of his parents want him and it doesn't sound like grandma does either. Yes his behaviour is terrible, but that's really not surprising given the circumstances. It all sounds a lot like a cry for attention.

I know you say you don't want to hear suggestions of your son raising his own child, but that is what I'd needed. Yes it doesn't fit with his current job, but no job should take priority over his childs wellbeing. Jobs come and go but you only get one childhood.