To get him the bare minimum for Christmas?

[JollyStreet]

My DS has full custody of my grandson (14), he works as a HGV driver and obviously isn't home all the time so he moved in with me (only an hour away from where he was living) but on days my son isn't working he goes back to my son. Or that was the plan.

He started a new school in January, he was previously in private school (that I paid for) but lost his place due to behaviour. He's now in a state school and probably not one of the best but that's the only place we could get him in, if he didn't lose his place he would still be attending. But he acts like everyone else is at fault.

He's had at least one day a week off since September, sometimes more just due to him refusing. When he's there he misbehaves, he's had over 100 behaviour points (negative) since September. It's not a sudden change either as he was like this last academic year too.

His behaviour isn't limited to school either, I found out he watched violent porn, he was adamant it wasn't him but he's the only person with access to his phone bar myself and my son, he's managed to get around it anyway and now deletes his search history.

He started going to a youth club and in the summer I found messages between him and a girl that also attended, I'm unsure how old she is I think about 15. She told him she was pregnant, myself and my son spoke to him and he denied it, he said they hadn't even had sex and she was “obsessed” with him and a bunch of misogynistic rubbish. I notified his school but she doesn't attend so there wasn't much they can do, they haven't said much about the school refusal either, just he needs to be in. They don't have very good pastoral staff.

I've tried early help but it isn't “severe” enough so they closed the case.

When my son once tried to get him in by taking his things he hit him, he lied about my son hitting him and he threatened to report him as he had bruises. So its hard to push to much as I believe my son didn't do it but I don't think social services or the police would think like that and he could lose his job etc. So I'm worried about pushing him too far. He's started refusing to go back to his dads because he just wants to play on his PC, here.

He hasn't been in since Thursday, I took his phone last night due to other behaviour and he stole some wine and drank it all (either half of it or just under half, in unsure on how much was actually left) and he asked what it feels like to be stolen from. This isn't the first time he's stolen alcohol and perhaps it was my own fault for having it in the house.

There's more but this post is long enough, I'm thinking of just getting him the bare minimum for Christmas like shower gel etc and nothing he's asked for and nothing “fun” due to his behaviour but I don't know how reasonable that would be as it's Christmas. His birthday is a few days after too but I have a feeling he won't be grateful for anything he receives. I'm doing all the Christmas shopping for him including from my son but he's giving me the money.

Also, please don't say he needs to go back to my son, it's just not possible with his work as he's sometimes away for days at a time.

@JollyStreet maybe think about how fiercely protective and defensive you are about your own son, and how much you love him. It comes across in all your posts. Nothing wrong with this, it’s not a criticism.

Now consider that your grandson doesn’t have this. No one is advocating for him. No one really properly cares.

This should not have fallen to you, and responsibility needs to go back to his parents. His parents need to be the kind of parent you are to your own child.

Well, he's basically an orphan with no stable adult or role model in his life, left to his own devices - unrestricted Internet usage, porn, risky sexual behaviour, drinking and gaming. Nobody has parented him really or put any boundaries, so he is who he is. No adult has ever been really interested in parenting him. He is at that age when he needs stable male role models who actually spend active time with him.

Can on to say the same ,but this puts it very well .. totally agree

@op Maybe think about how fiercely protective and defensive you are about your own son, and how much you love him. It comes across in all your posts. Nothing wrong with this, it’s not a criticism.

Now consider that your grandson doesn’t have this. No one is advocating for him. No one really properly cares.

This should not have fallen to you, and responsibility needs to go back to his parents. His parents need to be the kind of parent you are to your own child. If his parents loved him as you love your child, his situation would likely be very different.

Poor kid. So his mum gave up on him for whatever reason, his dad is effectively doing the same and his gran really doesn’t like him very much.

He needs help, not condemnation, before he’s a lost adult.

So you were paying for private school, but despite not having that to pay for anymore you won’t pay for counselling for your grandson as you see it as a waste of money. You also don’t want to buy him Xmas presents. I suspect you deeply dislike him from the way your posts come across, and resent the fact you are having to parent him - yet weirdly you don’t seem to be angry at your son for putting you in this position - your anger is all directed at your grandson who had absolutely no say in any of this.

You haven’t answered any questions about the boys mother. Is she alive? If she is, what is the reason for her having no contact with her son? This could be extremely relevant to his behaviour…

You say your grandson said his dad hit him and you were worried SS would believe him because he had bruises but you were certain he was lying. Where did he get those bruises? How certain are you his dad didn’t hit him? Was there any domestic violence with his mother? Or accusations of it? Your GS misogynistic attitude is coming from somewhere, and maybe it started with what he saw at home?

How old was he when his parents separated? How long has it been since he saw his mum? How many days a week is he supposed to be stopping at his dads?

Ultimately, he needs someone to step up and parent him. If you can’t do this, you should never have agreed to have him live with you when his dad is at work. His dad should be looking for any job that would enable him to be at home with his son, and working with him to fix these behaviours and attitudes. Do you have a partner? If so, what are they doing to help you with your GS?

As for Xmas, you don’t need to buy him a new phone - but you don’t need to just buy a Lynx gift set and be done either. He needs to feel loved. At the minute he feels like an inconvenience.

I don't know why you're asking here when you've already made your mind up.

I don't hate him but I don't like being around him when he's like this. It's just me and him here, I don't have a partner and I still work, mostly WFH but I do have to go in the office a few times a month.

As for the bruises, they didn't look like he’d been hit. They were tiny and on his one arm. I don't know where he got them but I believe my son wouldn't hit him. His dad was abusive towards him growing up (we weren't together and I only found out after he turned 18) so I just don't believe he would. Grandson has also lied about me calling him fat when I've never mentioned anything about his weight.

My son split with his mum before he was born but was still involved, he then got full custody when he was about 10. She was having supervised contact with him but that stopped.

I understand people saying my son should get a different job but it isnt that simple plus if he still lived with his mum it would be pretty much the same. My son picked him up from school today and spoke to his head of year and he explained about the behaviour report and said they'll monitor it but if things don't improve they'll have to think about other options

All behaviour is communication. He has no mum, sounds like he doesn’t see his dad often. The boy is crying out for attention.

Poor kid.

It sounds as though no matter what people say on here you're not able or willing to hear them or accept that almost every single response has said exactly the same thing which is no coincidence.

My heart breaks for this wee boy. I've worked with youngsters like this and the behaviour is a symptom of his pain and distress.

I genuinely fear for this boy. Teenage male suicides are a real problem and I pray that you and your son stop being so cold, judgemental, heartless, unforgiving and unwilling to address the elephant in the room which is his undoubted trauma.
Please find some love and compassion for this lad and help him, love him and support him as a family should.

How many of the posts on this thread are you reading, OP? You seem to keep fixating on the same things, while so many of us are advising you to look at the bigger picture.

I agree with PP that you don't seem very receptive to advice or different points of view. So I do wonder why you started the thread

This thread is so desperately sad.

We all know you are in an awful, really difficult position but you’re not taking anything from the thread at all and are still fixated on his behaviour rather than acknowledging the reasons behind it and asking advice on a way forward for him.

he needs more care, more love, rather than less

How about getting him membership to a gym or something for Christmas? Don’t just get one let him choose (and they might have good January deals)

Somewhere he could perhaps go, with positive male role models, get him out of his room, and channel some of his anger into exercise.

He may or may not sit exams, if he isn’t going to school and isn’t going to revise he won’t pass many, if any, I would look at colleges that do resit courses.

You as a family need something to break this pattern and I think you need outside help - you might find this in a gym, perhaps phone a few or ask for recommendations via Facebook - give a brief outline of what you are looking for or message directly.

It’s difficult to know who to give that if he throws back he will phone social services if you try and talk to him

what has he asked for for Christmas?
and what is his dad going to get him?
instead of being with you not at school could his dad take him in the truck one day so they can talk?
perhaps if he sees a day in the life of a HGV driver he might get interested in that as a job or think god no I want to do something else and hit the school books?

what sort of jobs is he interested in?

Don’t blame the school for not having good pastoral staff, the problem is your grandson. And the problem probably stems from his upbringing. Don’t pass the buck.
And no, you shouldn’t have alcohol in your house, ever.

So he lived with his mum until 10 and then had supervised contact for a while and now doesn't see his mum at all?

You seem to be unable to put two and two together op, so let us try and help you. Would you say your grandsons behaviour problems started when he stopped seeing his mum? Was the private school a new school once he was taken from his mum? Why is there no contact with his mum now?

If you want to help solve this issue, then you need to see that your grandson is obviously hurting form not having his mum in his life. He feels abandoned and is acting out.

It doesn't matter who caused what or why she's not in his life, he obviously isn't happy that he doesn't see her and is lashing out.

Can you look at contacting his mum? Would she want contact with him?

Have you even tried to get his mum back in his life?

Offer counselling again, don't take that offer off the table even if he didn't engage the first time.
That said, if he attended, he still engaged to a degree, even if he just sat there. It might go different this time.

dont have alcohol?
that is a bit extreme

Not when the child is stealing it and drinking it.

He is going through a lot, he is 14, he needs something positive to focus on. He isn’t coping in school. You son needs to understand that his Dad’s job is a good but difficult one. Can his Dad take him on the Truck and show him what it is like?

Your son needs to take responsibility here.
Imagine if this was a single mother. Would she take a job whereby her child was left endlessly? I doubt it.
He needs to seriously look for another job, take a pay cut. What about warehouse work- long hours but he won’t be away from home. This is your son’s responsibility. Boys learn how to become adults from their male role models and quite frankly your son isn’t doing a good job. We would all like to have had someone else help parent our difficult children but most women don’t get that luxury.
School will have their hands full with plenty of unruly teenagers and I feel for the staff having to deal with private schools cast offs. They are trying to teach not babysit pupils.
You need to tell your son that he parents his son. Calmly and rationally. Not shouting etc. install boundaries and stick to them. Parenting is hard work. They need to do things together.
Why are you doing your son’s shopping? Is he 5? Stop now. Make him do it. Again look at the example your grandson is seeing. Men are far too important to deal with that crap. Women are subservient so it’s down to them.
Tell your grandson when he stays with you it’s on your terms. The next time he is rude tell him to stop. Tell him you will not be spoken to like that. Tell him he is not getting nice things until he shows respect.
Most of all do not make empty threats. If you say something then be prepared to follow it through. Turn the WiFi off if you have to.
Your grandson needs clear, firm boundaries. Start with just a couple of things. Choose wisely the hill you are prepared to die on.
I was told this: all children respect boundaries. That is true.

Things won’t change until the adults in his life start the process to getting him proper help and support but it sounds like nobody wants to do that so he is going to become another statistic of a child who has been failed who then becomes a very troubled adult getting into trouble.