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Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

1000 replies

Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · 02/12/2025 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 16:37

Discussion about what? That women and girls should not be permitted single sex spaces?

PullingOutHair123 · 02/12/2025 16:37

SunnyViper · 02/12/2025 16:18

Great. I wish scouts would go back to being boy only too.

Its a different thing.

Guides decided that boys (or men) who said "I'm a Girl really" really were girls, and treated them as such. No separate changing or sleeping etc

As Scouts accept boys and girls, they have policies for both sexes mixing/sleeping/changing/toilets etc. Boys are recognised as boys and girls as girls. No-one (although I am sure there are exceptions somewhere) said boys ARE girls, therefore we will treat them as such.

I had (as a Scout) one young lady who suddenly said hey, I'm actually a boy. After shaking our heads slightly, we carried on. We were able to ensure her safety as a female, as we already had policies and procedures for separating the sexes when appropriate and we just had to put in a small number of adjustments. In her case, it didn't take long before she identified as female again.

HagCymraeg · 02/12/2025 16:38

The admins seem to have closed down the debate on the FB groups, directly them to contact GG HQ directly about the policy changes.
If anything goes by how HQ dealt with "enquiries" when they threw out their last batch of members (4000+ overseas members in 2023) these phone lines will be manned by non-members working from a flowchart enquiry script.
What a shitshow GG is honestly.
I am no longer taking new girls into my Ranger unit. When they age out I will leave, even though I am happy about today's decision.

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:39

user1471538275 · 02/12/2025 16:36

@user976534679875 I don't think it is a minority voice - it is a silent majority.

Not in my experience.

nearlyemptynes · 02/12/2025 16:40

Helpwithdivorce · 02/12/2025 14:56

I posted ages ago about a trans 4 year old on my waiting list for rainbows. I am extremely pleased that I now do not have to offer a place to this child. The whole thing made me extremely uncomfortable

Anyone not happy with this i suggest you join scouts- much more inclusive and welcoming for everyone

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:40

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:39

Not in my experience.

Ha ha ha. How can you possibly know?

DonicaLewinsky · 02/12/2025 16:40

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:31

Because they have obviously been dragged through this kicking and screaming.

Just one of the many organisations who are about to discover that the law is the law, however many hurty feelz you may have.

Yes, they're sending very clear signals here. The lawyers have made them.

To that end, I'm surprised how much whining at them there is on the various SM platforms from people who disagree with the decision. GG have made it abundantly clear that nothing about this is voluntary!

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:41

DonicaLewinsky · 02/12/2025 16:40

Yes, they're sending very clear signals here. The lawyers have made them.

To that end, I'm surprised how much whining at them there is on the various SM platforms from people who disagree with the decision. GG have made it abundantly clear that nothing about this is voluntary!

If you think a boy can be a girl then I don't think you're the brightest, tbh. So it's no surprise that they don't understand this.

nearlyemptynes · 02/12/2025 16:41

when my son came out he received nothing but support from his scout group a much more inclusive and friendly environment for all than girl guides. Girl guides are teaching girls to be scared of men - not at all healthy.

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:41

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:40

Ha ha ha. How can you possibly know?

How can I know my ow experience? Erm…..from
the people I talk to…..
how can you possibly assume the opinions of people who are silent on a topic?

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:42

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:41

How can I know my ow experience? Erm…..from
the people I talk to…..
how can you possibly assume the opinions of people who are silent on a topic?

how can you possibly assume the opinions of people who are silent on a topic?

There you go!

ScreamingBeans · 02/12/2025 16:42

gogomomo2 · 02/12/2025 15:46

@Well1mBack

trans children do exist. We have a relative who at 4 insisted they were a boy, refused to wear girls clothes etc and this was pre smartphone, pre social media, pre home internet even. He’s happily fully transitioned and 30 now. Trust me, nobody wants this for their child and nobody understood it at all at that time, had enough issues getting people to accept that homosexuality existed then!

I knew one of those, she insisted she was a boy from about 18 months old to puberty.

She grew out of it and became a happy, healthy lesbian.

Just because some people can only get relief from their gender dysphoria by undergoing surgery and hormone treatment, that does not mean that being trans is innate. It is culturally constructed.

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:42

nearlyemptynes · 02/12/2025 16:41

when my son came out he received nothing but support from his scout group a much more inclusive and friendly environment for all than girl guides. Girl guides are teaching girls to be scared of men - not at all healthy.

🙄

ACynicalDad · 02/12/2025 16:43

I hope many more organisations follow their lead. Would be good if the others owned their decision though.

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 16:44

You do realise how careful women have to be in being heard to care about women's rights and equalities when they inconvenience males identifying as trans? Women have been arrested, lost their jobs, it's not something anyone does lightly. Particularly in the presence of someone who is against those rights and equalities of women.

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that everyone who's nodded, smiled, not said anything, or even agreed with you in the moment actually meant what they said. Your view is a safe one in public. To stand by girls at the moment is very unsafe indeed.

CautiousLurker2 · 02/12/2025 16:44

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:11

The sad reality is that not enough female volunteers come forward to keep some units going. The male volunteers are almost always “Mr Brown Owl”

Wonder whether that was a direct result of their being inclusive?

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:44

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 16:37

Discussion about what? That women and girls should not be permitted single sex spaces?

Discussion about how to support people who find
themselves questioning their gender. Discussion about the difference between these people and abusive men.

your reply is a great example of why people who don’t share your view don’t comment on these posts.

DonicaLewinsky · 02/12/2025 16:45

nearlyemptynes · 02/12/2025 16:41

when my son came out he received nothing but support from his scout group a much more inclusive and friendly environment for all than girl guides. Girl guides are teaching girls to be scared of men - not at all healthy.

Problem solved then, your child is accommodated at Scouts. You can support them whilst staying out of the way of the single sex option at Guiding. Everyone's a winner!

Greenwriter76 · 02/12/2025 16:45

Good

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:45

CautiousLurker2 · 02/12/2025 16:44

Wonder whether that was a direct result of their being inclusive?

It wasn’t. HTH

OwlBeThere · 02/12/2025 16:46

SidekickSylvia · 02/12/2025 14:51

Brilliant news, although they really didn't need to state their reluctance quite so often. It's the correct decision, they should confidently stand by it, instead of this 'Sorry guys, we've had our hands forced.'

Well that’s clearly how they feel. They’re allowed to express that when it’s them that will have to potentially make young trans girls lose the only support system they may have. I’d be pretty upset at having to do that too.

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:47

MowingMachine · 02/12/2025 16:42

how can you possibly assume the opinions of people who are silent on a topic?

There you go!

i am sharing my experience of talking to people about this issue, not my assumptions about a “silent majority”. If they are silent, you do not know what they think! A substantial majority of people I actually know and have talked to, are not GC

ThatCyanCat · 02/12/2025 16:47

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:45

It wasn’t. HTH

Well then, scrapping the gaslighting shite that excluded all girls who needed a female environment won't make a difference to recruitment. Happy days!

SL2924 · 02/12/2025 16:48

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 02/12/2025 16:44

You do realise how careful women have to be in being heard to care about women's rights and equalities when they inconvenience males identifying as trans? Women have been arrested, lost their jobs, it's not something anyone does lightly. Particularly in the presence of someone who is against those rights and equalities of women.

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that everyone who's nodded, smiled, not said anything, or even agreed with you in the moment actually meant what they said. Your view is a safe one in public. To stand by girls at the moment is very unsafe indeed.

💯

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 16:48

user976534679875 · 02/12/2025 16:35

Personally, I rarely post anything on these boards, because there is no point, and because the attacks on any alternative opinion are brutal. There is no space for discussion. In my experience, the GC voice is a minority one, even though it doesn’t sound like it on MN.

I think you are misinformed on the issue as to what the majority of the UK population believe in regards to female single sex provisions.

YOUGOV UK TRACKER COMPARISONS

The following is the data from UK trackers from 2018 - 2024 tracking public opinion as part of their series of 'Where does the British public stand on transgender rights'. 2018 results included where they are available.

Here are some of the results that relate to the needs for female people to have single sex provisions:

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...
Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:

This question was also not asked in 2018

Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

There are other polls from around the world linked on this thread below:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5445880-statistics-poll-evidence-archive-thread?reply=148913457

Maybe in your social circle you are encountering people with the same opinions as you have, however, please do not assume that your opinions about male people being included in female single sex provisions is the prevailing opinion in the UK.

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

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