Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

You know very well that the poster meant it was a day of activities only open to bio girls and young women.

You do realise that with every attempt at a "gotcha", you just look more ridiculous right? And if you dont, well take it from me that you do.

To be fair, it’s the parents I blame the most. They lied to their child and set him up for massive upset in the future. The fact he’s at brownies means he’s under 11. That’s shocking. That poor, poor child.

Height, limb length, hand size, foot size, build, gait, voice, several million years of evolution... I really don't like being pushed into making this explicit - if TRAs had given me the chance, I'd have been quietly supportive of trans-identifying people in most contexts and never said as much... but, since you ask: 99.9% of the time, it's very clear indeed what sex someone is. There's only so much that cosmetic surgery and hormonal interventions can achieve in seeking to deny a reality that's necessary to our species' survival.

Indeed it is.

Males should not be in female spaces, sports, or similar.

The Organisation itself defines it when it incorporates and votes on its Constitution which then become legally binding until such time as there is an election of all it’s eligible members to change all or part of that constitution. In 1992 the Scouts did this and elected to become a mixed sex organisation, and are thus bound under law to include both sexes. The GGUK’s organisation is bound by the constitution established in 1910 (I think then) to be a single sex organisation for the promotion and education of girls.

The SC ruling confirms that sex is biological when interpreting the meaning of these constitutional documents.

I suspect you were trying to be clever, but actually achieved the opposite. GGUK is a female organisation as established in law. They realised this, had an Oh Fuck moment and have issued a statement accordingly.

Oh I have them!!

Swimming on your period.
Jogging on your period
Wall Climbing on your period
Football with javelin arse
Rugby with sore boobs

Need I go on?

Can't be bothered with 10 but here's 5 things that only females and males can partake in

5 activities for females only
Play on a women's football team
Play on a womens rugby team
Play on a womens cricket team
Play on a womens hockey team
Play on a women's netball team

5 activities for males only
Play on a men's football team
Play on a mens rugby team
Play on a mens cricket team
Play on a mens hockey team
Play on a mens netball team

Agree. Affirmative parents are a massive problem

What are you on about? It's not the activities, it's the groups.

You are the one that's talking about how "what if it's all about the hobby, not the group?".

So if it's about the hobby/activities on offer, why push into female only groups when there are mixed sex groups that do the same activities?

I am appalled that on a majority female forum we have so many posters expecting women and girls to give up our single sex spaces and opportunities.

Do better yourself!

Let's just go with bigoted in general then, like this one 🤣

I am biologically female, I identify as female, I also identify as too tired to deal with phobic idiots on MN - regardless of their gender.

Yes. Transhausen by proxy (or a parent disappointed with the sex of the child). No child of that age has any concept of 'gender'. It's like vegan cats. We all know who is making the decision. It's not the cat or the child.

The Cub Scouts are mixed sex and very similar.

https://www.scouts.org.uk/cubs/being-a-cub/what-do-cubs-get-up-to/

https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/running-your-section/programme-guidance/information-for-volunteers/the-scout-promise/

ETA You'll be aware that the Scouts pre-existed the Guides.

They were being sued

🙄

I can't tell if you have completely missed the point or are on the wind up.

There is no female activity, or male activity.

It's about the groups. Girl Guides is supposed to be single sex, for females only.

What is it that you are struggling with here?

Good. Finally. I really hope the tide is turning on all this harmful shit.

Yes, hence the Oh Fuck moment.

Edited on realising your child is, themselves, trans. If so, I have a huge amount of sympathy for them, but would direct my own anger at the organisation (and potentially other professionals) who have misrepresented the law and what society can and can't offer them in their transition.

I stand by what I offer below, though, as a possible way through your child's distress. Please don't let them be taken in by arguments that this is about bigotry. Discussing the realities of the issue will help them to de-personalise and accept a very upsetting decision as a question of balancing rights, as opposed to a wholesale and malicious rejection of their self-perception.

Gist of original post:

If your concern is genuinely for your child's perception of the organisation as kind and "inclusive", and her associated wellbeing, you can do an awful lot to mitigate how they're feeling right now by talking to them in an age-appropriate way about all the girls who will now be able to access Guides, but couldn't do so before.

It's an excellent opportunity to discuss different religions, for example - and, if they're ready for it, why some girls may not be able to feel as safe and relaxed in the presence of males (however those males may perceive themselves) as they do in an all-female space.

This could lead into the importance of females not being pressured to validate males' perspectives over and above their own, equally valid, experiences of the world.

They'll then have a fuller, richer understanding of a complex issue, and be in a better position to make up their own mind - as opposed to bowing under the weight of a simplistic moral imperative enforced by the loudest voices in society, and reinforced by the adults around her.

Above all, they'll also be given the opportunity to recognise that this is absolutely not personal, not anti-trans discrimination and not, heaven forbid, hate, but about the impossible challenge of balancing conflicting needs in the modern world.

The activity itself wasn’t ‘gendered’ it was something that is offered to all but the boys dominated (and not because of their greater talent or ability). So we ran some sessions just for girls, so it was run as a female only activity. And the girls expressed their feelings about why it was important to them to be able to take part without boys taking over.

understand now?

This is so true.

I see no kindness at all in letting a child believe that a single sex boundary should be removed to accommodate that child’s belief about themselves that doesn’t reflect material reality.

GG made a major error in judgement in changing their policy in the first place. They have created this cruel situation and need to take responsibility for this.

However, a male person also needs to learn that they will always find situations that they are excluded from based on their sex and that they should respect this fully.

I was a bit of a crap guide but the thing I most remember was that the single sex space gave us the freedom to not be feminine. We could be rough and tumble and coarse and sweary (singing campfire songs like Nobby All and A Soldier I Must Be and other sweary songs) and learn to whittle wood into useful things (I still have scars on my fingers from inexpert use of a penknife on guidecamp). It was very much not a feminine space because it was single-sex. Turning it into a tool for validating the feminine gender identity of a male person would destroy that.

Have you tried vitamin D? Very good for energy levels. Also a nice walk in the fresh air may help. But calling people idiots is not nice. Do better.

She has been my "daughter" now for longer than she was my "son". If she hits puberty and feels very different and realises she's a boy after all, then great I'll support that too. Because guess what - our identities aren't fixed. I love my child and want her to be supported in who she IS not feel othered for who she isn't. 40% of trans adults have attempted suicide at least once - hopefully, by supporting my child, she won't become a statistic. Feels very strange - and quite hurtful - to have you deliberately misidentify her. As for single sex spaces, I think Brownies and guides could do well for being kinder and more inclusive, that's all.

Can't your trans identified young child find a group that is mixed sex rather than wanting to push into the sex based female child group. Why should biological girls be shoved aside to accommodate biological boys who cannot accept how they were born.

We already have adult biological males shoving biological women aside in pursuit of their wants, fortunately more and more people realise its wrong.

Indeed. When I ran brownies we did shooting, archery, kayaking etc.

When I took my beaver cubs to scout camp (boys and girls) there was, erm, shooting, archery, kayaking etc., (though they were sadly discriminated against by age and only allowed to do the kayaking and other age appropriate activities).

The difference is one GROUP was organised around girls and the other around a mixed set of boys and girls. Very pertinent if there was a sleep over attached.