Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY!

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

"Trans male" is not a thing but I assume you mean biological girls who want to be boys?

Yes they are still welcome because they are girls. I am not sure why you are assuming otherwise.

Why is it awful that girls are going to have a girl only group again?

Girls who identify as boys can and should be included in Girl Guiding. It is a single sex organisation.

Yes that's right. It all comes down to biological sex. A trans boy is a girl who says they are a boy, but that's just a feeling. They are in fact girls and will be welcome.

Don't do that.

Yes, trans boys/males would be welcome because they are biological females.

There is no logic failure. Biological females, whether they are comfortable in their sexed body or feel they have a non binary or male gender are welcome.

Boys are not.

What makes them trans?

I love my family too but I can't pretend reality doesn't exist to please them. Or I could, but I couldn't demand everyone else does the same and dismantle women's rights for it. Women have families who love them too.

But surely that’s because the ethos and cohort of that particular scouts group was very different to the ethos and cohort of the brownies?

Scouts was traditionally more stereotypically boisterous and boyish, while Brownies / guides was more stereotypically gentle and girly. Unfortunately the children who defied the trends (ie the boisterous girls who wanted to start fire, and the gentle boys who wanted to make bracelets) had nowhere to go.

Now that Scouts have opened their doors to the girls, I think it only fair that Brownies / Guides should be equally welcoming to boys. Either that or they should amalgamate.

Are adult unit leaders/volunteers sleeping in the tents/dorm with girls? No. Are they showering and changing with girls? No.

That's the difference. No one with any sanity would support a teenage boy sleeping in tents/dorm with teenage girls, or showering/changing with them.

Can’t see a problem with trans males being in girl guides. They’re girls afterall. But seeing as the whole trans identity is nothing but a big pile of stereotypes about the opposite sex I’m not sure why they’d want to.

I knew three FTM pupils. They all transitioned back - one at school, two after leaving. There was also one girl who was 'questioning'.

A friend's young family member is autistic and FtM. She transitioned after her school tried to insist that girls should wear one piece swimsuits, while the boys were allowed to wear board shorts and tops. (Yes, her family complained and she won the right to wear the same as the boys but I suspect that the debacle had an impact on her.)

I have one former pupil who is MTF and who has gone through terribly painful surgery.

As I've said elsewhere on these boards, I'm struck by the fact that boys are still (with the exception of that one MtF pupil) confident enough to come out as gay, but the last time that I heard of a girl coming out as a lesbian in a school setting was about 20 yrs ago. We've gone backwards.

I don't really care that people think single sex provision is regressive.

By that reasoning progress is defined by all mixed sex provision - mixed sex sports, mixed sex prison, mixed sex hospital provision

Hmmm... let's think - which particular group will benefit from that and which group will lose out

I don't agree that progress is increasing provision to already powerful groups

How would mixed sex maternity and gynaecology work? Would men just barge in and say 'I think I'm pregnant' and the midwives just ignore the women giving birth to worship at this miracle?

Respectfully, don't do what?

Why does a girls' group have to admit boys just because a boys' group made the business decision to go mixed about 30 years ago? One mixed group exists, so no single sex groups can? That makes no sense. That's reducing options.

Men are still free to start up a new boys' group if the demand exists.

Male is a sex. Your sex is encoded in your chromosomes, DNA and every cell of your body. Even trans people themselves acknowledge they don't change sex. 'Trans boys' are fully intact - with penis and testicles, boys. That they wear a dress does not change that.

Girls identifying as trans are welcome in girl guiding - as they are girls.

It might not fit with what they're trying to achieve though.

i wonder what this bit means regarding inclusion
Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You deal in beliefs, the rest of the world deal in reality. It’s just like any other religion. Believe what you like if that keeps you and your family happy. The rest of us don’t have to believe it too though.

Nope they sperm that fertilised the egg does (and the supreme court)

"If only you all knew a trans person like me, you would have much more enlightened views like mine." It's disrespectful.

You keep making massive unfounded assumptions and I have to wonder why.

The boys who leave can join a variety of other youth organisations. Girls and their parents chose a single sex organisation and they are allowed to retain that single sex status.

Children are expelled from youth groups every day for a variety of reasons. Please don’t use emotional blackmail against women and girls to try and force them to centre boys.

I would have thought that if anything, the adult volunteers should be subject to this more than the kids?

What about the girls who were self excluding because boys were allowed to join? Girls from very strict families? Girls with a trauma background?

I have two adopted, autistic daughters who would not have coped with a boy in their group. They would be fine with joining a mixed group, but not a supposed girls' group with a boy saying he's a girl. Their autism would find that too jarring and their early trauma would find the boundary crossing to be very unsafe.

They matter too.

Doesn’t matter what you think is ‘fair’.

The organisation voted to remain ‘girls only’ back in 1990ish and it has never been put to a membership vote to change the constitution. The current constitution requires that it only opens youth membership to girls [as defined in law and confirmed in the Sc ruling] though it did open volunteering in adult roles in 2017, if a google search I’ve done tonight is correct. In my years as a brownie/guider and my 8-10 year as a helper (5 years as a leader/district commissioner) I didn’t personally encounter a male helper, but do appreciate from others’ accounts that there are some.

There are other multiple other youth groups offering similar activities that include both boys and girls. I ask again, given we have a multi-cultural society and there are practical and dignity related reasons why young girls may wish to be in a single-sexed environment, WHY CAN’T GIRLS HAVE ONE SPACE TO THEMSELVES?

Moving to mixed sex.

Launching some kind of campaign or badge about gender identity.

Who knows, but it gives me caution.