To Think Non-Medically Required Circumcision Is Abuse?

[BigFatBully]

Circumcision of a child if not required for a medical reason is abuse. I don't believe a child can consent to mutilation and it should be for them to decide when they reach adulthood if they want such a procedure.

I don't understand how anyone could take a happy baby who is otherwise healthy and do this to them.

It's male genital mutilation (MGM).

Me too. I have the paints. Off to look for brush pens now.

Can I imagine it, of course. That’s why I said it. Don’t be so disingenuous with your faux - disbelief.

I would be in complete agreement with having the procedure done. I don’t think its barbaric and don’t care if you think that’s ‘brainless’.

What about a finger? A toe? An earlobe? All ok too? Where do you draw the line or is only cutting off part of the penis you deem acceptable when it comes to cutting body parts off babies?

people can champion more than one cause. This one is important. Just because some men like your DH are so convinced it’s their ‘culture’ and therefore simply must happen, it doesn’t mean other people can’t speak up against it. It’s not like the babies can speak up for themselves, they’re just subjected to it with no consent. Madness that you don’t see how wrong it is.

It is not comparable to FGM and done for very different reasons, one is about control of woman and girls the other as its is seen as being cleaner (and lets not forget that when this was introduced into religious laws people were living in extremely hot sandy places with little access to water)

I am not sure enough men who have been circumcised feel that negative about the procedure (if they did laws would have changed by now) but many do and I do believe in allowing an adult to make the choice unless for medical reasons.

As for calling making any changes to children bodies as mutilating them are we to also include making changes that are not really necessary but we feel it may be better for them i.e.. ears being pinned, removal of birthmarks and so on. Mutilation is a word that really should not so easily be bandied about

I never understand the “more important cause to champion”line. Of course I have. That doesn’t mean I can’t also care about inflicting unnecessary pain on tiny baby boys in the mistaken belief that it is for their own good.

It’s not faux disbelief. It’s genuine disbelief that you’d send a tiny baby for an unnecessary, painful and irreversible medical procedure which could cause infection for no reason whatsoever other than your husband wanted it.

But most males never need it so it's a bit like pulling your finger nail out to prevent a hang nail. Or removing teeth to prevent fillings

I’m both American and Jewish. I’ve never seen an uncircumcised man in person and my (non Jewish) husband and everyone else in my history have always been circumcised. And yes, our son is. Honestly it had never occurred to me to be something to consider, but when it came up as a conversation quite a while after I was surprised at how unusual it is where we live now. I don’t like to focus on regrets for things I can’t change, but I probably wouldn’t have done it had I thought about it differently or if anyone had talked more openly about it before I had my son. But if he’d been born in the states it would have been done automatically for either cultural or religious reasons - it really is most people of any religion there. So far my son is fine and doesn’t know any different anyway, but we’ll see if he gets angry about it later on in life.

You're pleased he had unnecessary surgery as a baby? Weird.

Any culture other than Christian English I expect. See also: cultural imperialism, attending to the beam in your own eye before notice the speck in your brother's

Yes, I draw the line at the foreskin. Cutting off the foreskin is something I deem acceptable due to my religious and cultural beliefs.

In that context, a finger, a toe, an earlobe, no. You can tell me its the same thing all you like, it isn’t.

You have a right to speak up against it. I don’t champion the cause for or against, it just isn’t important to me.

Absolutely agree with the OP.
If someone wants to get it done (🤷) let them choose, as an adult.
If it's a medical necessity, then sure, but that's rather unusual.

There is lots of debate in America now and circumsision rates are going down. The understanding that babies brains are altered permanently by early trauma is finally having an impact.
We accept that babies are impacted even in the womb by maternal stress so inflicting needless pain on a tiny baby has to have as much or more of a negative impact.

I dislike male circumcision, even though many men have no complaints. It’s an unnecessary and permanent change to someone’s genitals.

I also think any comparisons to FGM are grossly offensive to women who had to endure that procedure, which goes beyond ‘unnecessary’ to ‘torturous’.

I just can’t get upset about it. I reserve my outrage for more important things than male circumcision, my experience of which has been that it’s a total non-issue and not traumatising to men in any way.

Its women debating it, isn’t it? It isn’t men because, for the umpteenth time, if they wanted it stopped, it would just stop, no debating necessary. There are so many more important things going on in the world, if this is being debated among leaders of any kind, its as a smoke screen.

I agree.

I'm male. I was circumsized as an adult for medical reasons, with my full consent.

It fucking well hurts. And it leads to loss of sensation sexually. There's is no reason to do it unless it's medically necessary to do so.

I'm not going to pretend that it's the same as FGM. But slapping your kid instead of punching them is still abuse. Cutting off your child's body part is abuse.

Mutilation - cutting bits off.

Minor cosmetic surgery - pinning ears back, hiding birthmarks.

I would (in a hypothetical world) be happy to see performing or receiving cosmetic surgery as a criminal offence (as normalizing unrealistic beauty stndards is a really bad thing), but correcting an obvious defect to normal beauty standards in a relatively harmless way (eg pinning back ears) is fine.

We are talking about cutting parts of the genitals of of babies, and people are so unthinkingly accepting historic cultural / religious norms that they simply can't think using reason and compassion. Humanity shocks me sometimes.

Why do we allow Halal and Kosher slaughter when we decided years ago that we don;t like animal cruelty?

Because things are not as simple as your post suggests.

Bollocks. The opinion of your husband - one random man - does not take away from the fact that inflicting unnecessary harm on a baby who cannot consent to the procedure is abusive.

As parents our job is to stand up for and protect our kids, not to allow someone to take a fucking knife to them.

No there are lots of men suffering from complications now who are campaigning it isn't led by women.
As for no lasting impact....how do we know it doesn't fuel aggression, lack of emotions, lack of empathy?

This. My DP is circumcised, as are all the men in his family. None of the women have undergone FGM, which they find abhorrent

Male circumcision is pretty non negotiable in their culture

Oh I'm not pro at all - I think healthy body parts should be left very much alone! I guess it's "better" that the young men have a choice but then again given cultural pressure, it's not that much of a choice at all really.

Edited

You deem it acceptable because of your religion and cultural beliefs?

your previous quote states - ‘It is 100% a given where he comes from and he likes it - who am I as a British, atheist woman to tell him he’s wrong?’