To Think Non-Medically Required Circumcision Is Abuse?

[BigFatBully]

Circumcision of a child if not required for a medical reason is abuse. I don't believe a child can consent to mutilation and it should be for them to decide when they reach adulthood if they want such a procedure.

I don't understand how anyone could take a happy baby who is otherwise healthy and do this to them.

It's male genital mutilation (MGM).

Where I grew up, circumcision happens not in infancy but when a young man is around 18 - they go off for weeks to initiation school, and it's done with non pain relief and no doctor. If they're lucky it's a clean razor - unlucky and it's a rusty spear tip. There are several deaths from blood loss and infection each year.

When we’re talking about foreskin, no I don’t think its ‘always wrong’ or ‘mutilation’, but its ultimately for men to decide whether to continue the tradition.
My DH says his feeling of cultural correctness and cleanliness outweighs any reservations about ‘cutting off babies body parts’, when he feels he is missing nothing.

On this basis wouldn't it make sense to let each man decide for himself and chose circumcision as an adult if they like. I don't really understand why your husband's feelings on this (which seem totally valid to me for what it's worth) would lead to him thinking the choice should be removed for any sons he had.

Why would you doubt this?

It's been said repeatedly over the years by so many MNetters.

It's a strange thing to doubt.

But they haven't banned male circumcision. Does that not say it all?

Women are human beings, and should be able to recognize that cutting bits off of babies is always wrong.

I despair

My father was done 90 years ago. When my first brother was born my mum said no way, he said ok and none of us had it done. I’m very pleased she put her foot down. I’d make it illegal happily.

Ouch! That does not sound good. An argument for not forcing it underground, I guess.

This.

It's so accepted. There's not even an attempt to change the culture apart from encouraging the actual act to be as hygienic as possible. And literally if the young men don't go, they get treated with a lack of respect in the community and told they're not real men.

Interestingly enough it was illegal to castrate dogs in Sweden until recently and it's still illegal, I believe, in Norway. They evidently have a very evolved stance on the removal of body parts.

Late husband was born in America so was circumcised. He wanted No 1 son circumcised so he was. He's happy about that as he married an American and she found it the norm. No 2 son was not circumcised although he came close to it at puberty for medical reasons, and, given the nature of the medical intervention necessary, he rather wished he had been.

Incidentally my MIL, from an upper middle class family considered circumcision to be a class thing and a sign that you were posh. She was right in that until recently it was standard practice in the British upper classes. The king was circumcised but William and Harry are not.

I wouldn't do it now but I think there are more important things to get aerated about.

That's terrible. I think most cultures get it done when they're babies.

I imagine this has caused harm?

Just to say that my son was circumcised at 10 yrs old for medical need - certainly wouldn’t have happened otherwise and then my husband on acknowledging he had had the same problem all his life was recommended to have the op at 47. Medical needs are valid in some cases. In this case the foreskin was too tight and caused painful strictures.

Thank you for your measured response!

I think the answer to that is, again, ingrained cultural and religious tradition. Its done when its done because of religious doctrine and cultural norms. baby is born into that culture and has no say, any more than any of us have a say in what happens within the religion or culture we’re born into. I object to christening, but I don’t tell Christians they need to bring their kids up atheist and let their children decide when they’re eighteen if they want to be part of a Christian community, with all that it entails.

Leaving it up to a son to decide whether he wanted it as an adult is not the way its done. Its so completely a given in the American midwest, there is literally no debate about it.

Again, men decide this over the generations, and if they wanted it stopped, it would simply stop so I’m not going to worry about it.

If we had a son we would of course have a conversation about it, but I wouldn’t object so it would be a short conversation. As parents it would be our decision and I don’t care what others would think.

On a side note, do you paint? Unless Kuretake has another meaning, your username is a box of Japanese watercolours?

I wish I’d written this. Its exactly how I see it, with a circumcised American husband. I know I’ve written reams… but I really can’t get aerated about this non-issue either.

I don't think anyone's going to attract criticism for not identifying MGM as the cause of their lives.

Choosing to not prioritize a relatively trivial (compared to SA or FGM) issue is fine. Coming onto a thread about MGM and saying "cutting bits of baby boys off for no reason is fine" is not fine. IMHO.

There's a few annual deaths from either blood loss or sepsis. Generates a bit of discussion on SM amongst the more affuent/educated classes, but that's really about it.

On a side note, do you paint? Unless Kuretake has another meaning, your username is a box of Japanese watercolours?

Not a painter but I love stationery and journalling and use kuretake brush pens for my diary!

This.

So because some boys / men do have a medical need all choice should be taken away from those who don't?

I could eliminate breast cancer almost entirely, why won't you let me introduce the laws to make that happen?

Well, it says when people have a completely free choice they don’t do it. And that there is no medical case for it

What is a ‘backward culture’?

That's so sad. Would you say it should be banned for all males, not just adult males? If yes, I can totally understand, based on your experiences.

Google "herpes new york circumcision" if you want to read something truly horrific from the orthodiox jewish community.

New York City is investigating the death last September of a baby who contracted herpes after a "ritual circumcision with oral suction," in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish ceremony known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh.

It isn’t ‘A thread about MGM’ - its a thread about circumcision, and nobody has said ‘cutting bits off babies is fine’. There is a difference between a foreskin and say, an arm and if you can’t see that…well.

You can use all the alarmist words and express all the shock you want, I think you need a more important cause to champion.

If men want it stopped, they can simply stop it with immediate effect. They haven’t so I’m not going to worry about it on their behalf.

I’m a woman too but I have enough of a brain to know that cutting off part of a healthy baby’s body is barbaric and unnecessary. I would advocate for my child if my DH wanted him circumcised for no good reason and refuse it. I’m astounded you wouldn’t do the same if you had a son. Could you honestly imagine having a tiny baby boy and letting that happen to him?