AIBU for telling my son's dad he can have our son on Christmas Eve day but not Christmas morning.

[NattyRedWriter]

So just to clarify before I start, me and my son's dad have a reasonably amicable relationship and have done since we split 5 years ago. We parted on mutual amicable terms and make arrangements for our son between us.

He sees our son about once a fortnight- through his choice- and I am happy to accommodate the days that work for him, because up until recently he was working weekends and didn't have set hours. As long as it doesn't affect our son's football matches for that weekend as this is our son's favourite thing and we both know this and wouldn't want his matches affected. I drop him off and pick DS up because he doesn't drive.

He doesn't pay maintenance but does pay for half of our son's clubs- as well as football our son does 2 other clubs and goes to afterschool clubs twice a week due to work commitments. He tends to pay this half way through the term which is slightly frustrating because I need to pay upfront at the start of the term but to be honest I know he'll pay eventually so I don't see the point in causing an issue for the sakes of a few weeks! He doesn't pay for maintenance/ food/ clothes etc but tbh I don't struggle and would rather just get on with it than create what could become an issue. It's a bit frustrating because he smokes a lot and goes out quite a lot but tbh I don't want the hassle!

He worked away for a bit abroad for 3-4 months at a time so doesn't have his own accommodation any more. He has lived between his parents and now his new girlfriends houses for the last 18 months. His parents aren't trusted around our son unsupervised so whilst our son goes there under his dad's supervision he wouldn't be left unsupervised or stay overnight there.

What I find quite frustrating is that he doesn't turn up to any football/ swimming/ school events for our son- even though up until a few weeks ago he was literally living 300m away from the leisure centre/ playing fields! Doesn't take our son to school, pick him up or take him to any club/matches and can't even be bothered to turn up to parents evening, despite currently not working. Doesn't help at all with arranging childcare for school holidays but rather tells me he only gets his rota weekly so doesn't know in advance- assuming I'll sort it!

I feel that it's his loss because he's missing out on seeing our son grow and do the things he loves but equally it's me that gets the frustration of our son when he's not turned up to something yet again!

Anyway my real frustration and the reason for this post is that today my son has gone to his dad's- he turned up 5 minutes before the end of his hour long football match to pick him up!- and then asked the arrangements for Christmas. For the last 3-4 years our son has seen his dad on Christmas eve day and I've picked him up in the evening and he's been with me Christmas Day. His dad is always welcome to pop round on Christmas Day if he wants and has done the last couple of years with his last girlfriend. It's always been quite pleasant and I felt good for our son to see his parents and step parents all get along together.

I assumed this would happen again this year and said to him this when he asked... he then replied yes I can have him xmas eve and I'll drop him over xmas morning/ after lunch. I swiftly said no to this! I felt quite frankly fuming that he has the audacity to think he can have our son at his new girlfriends house on Christmas morning when he doesn't both on any other morning of the year! I feel that I do everything for out son - which I'm not complaining about- but I do feel the least I deserve is to get xmas morning- the one day of the year to be able to share presents and be together and share the magic (he's 8 and already shared doubts about santa so I'm expecting this to be his last xmas believing) etc.

I can't help but feel really fuming but also AIBU for saying no to my son being at his dad's for Christmas morning when I do everything all year around and his dad just pops up when he feels like it?

I really doubt being shipped around is what makes the kids happy. You say kids shouldn't be treated as a reward on Christmas day, we hr Father should understand this and back off until boxing day. Letting him get away with shit parenting and covering for his shit parenting to your daughter is not the win you think it is. She will think women have to put up with bare minimum from men as it's all they are capable of, when that's not true.

Yanbu but I’d still talk it out with your son, he hasn’t got to do Christmas morning with his dad in years and he may have brought it up but be trying to spare your feelings

You can't say you're frustrated he doesn't put the effort in and then refuse him when he's offering it!

Let him experience Christmas morning with his son. You've had him plenty of Christmas'.

I say this as a mum of a child who spends alternate Christmas' with his dad.

Mine are adults now, but I was was in a very similar situation to you. Ex would see them regularly but when it suited him. We were very amicable but I always felt I did 90% of the parenting and 100% of the drudge.
One thing I never ever budged on was Christmas morning they were with me. He could have them Christmas eve, boxing day, Christmas afternoon. He could come over and see them at any point. But they woke up on Christmas day with me. Had we had a more even split on the parenting then that would have transferred over to Christmas as well.

Having his son on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day isn't him putting the effort in. That would be having his son regularly overnight, paying maintenance and being a proper reliable fatherly presence in his life, none of which he does. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are the best bits of parenting, the reward for OP doing the hard daily slog of bringing up a child on her own. He doesn't just get to swoop in and take this from OP without any discussion.

Yanbu.
He's a BMD, bare minimum Dad and a CF to boot.

Your ex is doing the absolute bare minimum here - if that - so I can see why you're upset. I can also see why you think you deserve Xmas morning (I think you do, too), and you ex does have some cheek to ask for it.

But the problem is that I think you've rationalised the set up you have as a kind of arrangement, in which you don't demand from your ex what are his rightful obligations to your child (regular contact, maintenance), and you get all/the majority the parenting highlights as well as the daily grind. But that's not an agreement that you've actually ever made between the two of you, and your ex may not see the trade off in the same way you do, and now that's causing an issue.

I think you should go with what your DS wants this year. And then in Feb, you approach your ex about formalising your co-parenting with an agreement for maintenance, regular contact, and arrangements for holidays.

I think people forget that in large part having children is a selfish act. We have them because we want them. We imagine the happy times and we put in the hard yards and as per PP days like Christmas are the reward.
I do put my child first but there’s no need to be an absolute martyr and think OP’s happiness counts for nothing here.

My ex left when DD was young and moved 400 miles away, opting to be a “high days and holidays” bare minimum dad. I’ve made my peace with it now but one thing I have never shifted on is Christmas. I get Christmas and he gets New Year.

Another one saying this. My reply would be ‘ds can see you on Christmas Eve and I’ll collect him at <usual time>, I won’t be changing the usual Christmas Day plans with ds at mine. We should discuss maintenance payments at some point, you are his parent and should be part of supporting him. The other thing most separated parents do is share holiday time, I assume this Christmas request indicates you are willing to step up a bit in the dad department. Why don’t you start with 5 days in the period before school goes back?

He just wants to look like a good dad for the girlfriend, this isn’t about your ds. so my response would make it really clear that if he wants to try and take the best bits I’d stop enabling him with being such a shit dad.

I voted YABU because really your son should get a say in whether he spends some time with his dad on Christmas morning. It's nice that you've been able to get on well enough for him to visit with his gf, but inevitably they will over time want to establish their own traditions.

He does sound a bit of a fun times only dad, not up for the harder bits of parenting, which is a shame, and yes he should be stepping up more. But my question is, would withholding this time at Christmas be in your son's best interests, or would you be withholding it because you want to punish him for his lack of practical involvement/financial help? If the former, like you have a concern about your son's safety or wellbeing staying with him, then that's fair. If the latter, that's about your feelings, not your son's interests, and you would be unreasonable to use contact with a child to punish the other parent. Most separated parents do alternate Christmases. If you do agree this year it would be fair for you to have Christmas morning next year.

He is just trying to play ‘look im a great dad’ for his gf with the Christmas request. I think the ops ds would feel this, that he was just a prop in dad’s xmas display, even if he couldn’t quite put a finger on what he felt uneasy about. I wouldn’t let my ds in for that, he deserves to be loved on Christmas Day.

@CrazyGoatLadyI don’t think the OP is wanting to punish her ex at all. I think she’s saying that she does all the work and would like to have the special experience of being with her child, who she is bringing up single-handedly, on Christmas Day.

What on earth kind of message would be otherwise being sent to her son about what it means to be a father?

He’s an utter wastrel. And tbh you sound like you’ve allowed / not challenged this wastrel behaviour. And why are his paternal grandparents not allowed to be trusted around your DS, and yet you let him go there whilst ex-DP is there? You realise that this wastrel won’t be enduring he’s not left alone with these people?
If he doesn’t pay maintenance why isn’t he paying for 100% of the clubs rather than only his 50%? You say it like he’s acting generously by paying the 50% he owes, and yet he gives you no actual maintenance for looking after his son 99% of the time.

This man can’t be arsed going to parents evenings or his son’s sporting events, yet has the time and energy to devote to pursuing and securing new girlfriends. And then you welcome him & the new GF into your home and are friendly with them…. You realise that your son is seeing you not stand up for him, don’t you? Your son will be seething and hurt inside at the crap treatment he gets from his dad, and instead of seeing you challenging it he sees you being nicey-nicey and seemingly waving it all along.

OP - kindly, you need to grow a backbone for your son’s sake.

This is about looking good for his girlfriend.
What a tosser.
I wouldn't entertain him for a minute.

He sounds like a pretty useless Dad and you’re willing to accommodate this for an easy life. No maintenance, minimal contact and then wants to have his son for Christmas? Fuck that. It’ll probably be the girlfriend’s idea.

I think you need to ask your son what he wants. My ex paid minimal maintenance and absolutely nothing else. Even now when my 2 are 21 and 18 he still won't give them a penny. Despite the money we always done alternative Xmas days. This is the 1st year they are changing things up themselves and staying at home with me. I think as much as we don't always agree, we have to allow our children to have their own decisions.

This is such a shit situation and I know that feeling of dread and panic about the thought of not being with your children on Xmas Day. You do everything for your child and deserve to have all the happy times too. BUT I hate to say this I echo what some others have said that really it is down to your son. How would he feel knowing Dad wants to be with him ( not even for the whole day) and you said no? It’s not ok that he is a loser Dad but he’s still in his son’s life - barely - and really it’s whatever is best for your son, as harsh as it is . My children in the end decided not to have Christmas with their Dad ever because they just wanted to be at a home, and I suspect if your son does it once he won’t want to again. But really it is up to him. Sorry as I know how unfair it feels after doing all the lions share and solo parenting . His Dad sounds like and absolute loser tbh. The fact that he is unreliable and awful with contributing might be such a let down but your son does deserve to see his Dad if he wants to . Sorry and sending love x

There’s a number of things that need to be addressed (and should have been addressed prior to now) with your ex however the Son’s Christmas availability isn’t bait to get them sorted.

prioritise what needs addressing and call a meeting with the Boy’s Father. Keep it professional (and hopefully not in front of your Son). Put it on the table these items need attention and what are his intentions to remedy them.

meanwhile ask you Son where would he like to be for Christmas. Is he happy to share the day between two households or perhaps he might have a 3rd idea of what He wants to do…

Quite right!

This. I think you are being generous letting him go there on Christmas Eve all day.

I have a similar situation with a similarly useless ex who contributes nothing except the bare minimum of CMS £7 per week and thats it. He was unreliable for years, not turning up to contact we arranged yet always complaining he never had enough contact. I provided all the contact transport and paid for everything for my son. My ex was always away at Christmas so I had child to myself. My ex then engineered the breakdown of weekend contact sessions by banning me from going anywhere near his house whilst expecting me to still provide transport. He then got legal aid by making up lies to take me to court for custody. He didnt get custody he got what he already had before he forced contact to break down. But the point is I know how the court would view it -

• Childs wishes should be respected (particularly for teens who have a big say in contact) - so what does your son want? Its not about what you or your ex want but what your child wants
• Regardless of what the ex has or hasnt does or doesnt contribute the court would still say that Christmas's are shared on rotation. So eg teatime xmas eve to teatime xmas day or teatime xmas day to teatime boxing day etc. So if you had your son each xmas until now the court would say that you ex is due to have him now. But then if your child is a teen then its up to what he wants.

I know it is really rubbish but sadly the courts are not interested in how little someone contributes or that the most of the childcare responsibility falls to the mum with little support from Dad. It is unfair but thats the family courts for you! In the meantime as he hasnt taken it to family court you dont need to agree but he could push it/

so my sons dad and I alternate it. One of us has christmas eve to christmas day around noon then goes to the other parent for Lunch and we swap it every year so our son gets to spend christmas with us both. son now 12 likes that. we've done that since we split and it seems to work.

There’s a number of things that need to be addressed (and should have been addressed prior to now) with your ex however the Son’s Christmas availability isn’t bait to get them sorted.

I agree with this. As unfair as it may feel that he neither does nor contributes enough, contact with a child is not something you can use as a reward or sanction. Family court, if he did decide to go down that route, would take a dim view of a parent of either gender saying the other parent can't have their child on Christmas day ever because they haven't paid enough maintenance/done enough parents evenings. And a new partner may increase the risk of him starting to want more time in order to not look like a shit parent. And in fairness, particularly with men, sometimes a new partner may look at the situation and be the one to encourage them to step up and do more for their child. That happened with my cousin's dad, he was a bit rubbish for a couple of years after the split from my aunt, but his new partner gave him a boot up the backside and he shaped up a lot more.

Sometimes it's just really hard in these situations because what's right for the child absolutely sucks for the parent.

This made me laugh. He makes bugger all effort but wants Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. You must be joking!

Exactly! He’s not “offering” help he’s looking to pluck the best day of the year for himself.