AIBU for telling my son's dad he can have our son on Christmas Eve day but not Christmas morning.

[NattyRedWriter]

So just to clarify before I start, me and my son's dad have a reasonably amicable relationship and have done since we split 5 years ago. We parted on mutual amicable terms and make arrangements for our son between us.

He sees our son about once a fortnight- through his choice- and I am happy to accommodate the days that work for him, because up until recently he was working weekends and didn't have set hours. As long as it doesn't affect our son's football matches for that weekend as this is our son's favourite thing and we both know this and wouldn't want his matches affected. I drop him off and pick DS up because he doesn't drive.

He doesn't pay maintenance but does pay for half of our son's clubs- as well as football our son does 2 other clubs and goes to afterschool clubs twice a week due to work commitments. He tends to pay this half way through the term which is slightly frustrating because I need to pay upfront at the start of the term but to be honest I know he'll pay eventually so I don't see the point in causing an issue for the sakes of a few weeks! He doesn't pay for maintenance/ food/ clothes etc but tbh I don't struggle and would rather just get on with it than create what could become an issue. It's a bit frustrating because he smokes a lot and goes out quite a lot but tbh I don't want the hassle!

He worked away for a bit abroad for 3-4 months at a time so doesn't have his own accommodation any more. He has lived between his parents and now his new girlfriends houses for the last 18 months. His parents aren't trusted around our son unsupervised so whilst our son goes there under his dad's supervision he wouldn't be left unsupervised or stay overnight there.

What I find quite frustrating is that he doesn't turn up to any football/ swimming/ school events for our son- even though up until a few weeks ago he was literally living 300m away from the leisure centre/ playing fields! Doesn't take our son to school, pick him up or take him to any club/matches and can't even be bothered to turn up to parents evening, despite currently not working. Doesn't help at all with arranging childcare for school holidays but rather tells me he only gets his rota weekly so doesn't know in advance- assuming I'll sort it!

I feel that it's his loss because he's missing out on seeing our son grow and do the things he loves but equally it's me that gets the frustration of our son when he's not turned up to something yet again!

Anyway my real frustration and the reason for this post is that today my son has gone to his dad's- he turned up 5 minutes before the end of his hour long football match to pick him up!- and then asked the arrangements for Christmas. For the last 3-4 years our son has seen his dad on Christmas eve day and I've picked him up in the evening and he's been with me Christmas Day. His dad is always welcome to pop round on Christmas Day if he wants and has done the last couple of years with his last girlfriend. It's always been quite pleasant and I felt good for our son to see his parents and step parents all get along together.

I assumed this would happen again this year and said to him this when he asked... he then replied yes I can have him xmas eve and I'll drop him over xmas morning/ after lunch. I swiftly said no to this! I felt quite frankly fuming that he has the audacity to think he can have our son at his new girlfriends house on Christmas morning when he doesn't both on any other morning of the year! I feel that I do everything for out son - which I'm not complaining about- but I do feel the least I deserve is to get xmas morning- the one day of the year to be able to share presents and be together and share the magic (he's 8 and already shared doubts about santa so I'm expecting this to be his last xmas believing) etc.

I can't help but feel really fuming but also AIBU for saying no to my son being at his dad's for Christmas morning when I do everything all year around and his dad just pops up when he feels like it?

YANBU. He's not involved enough in any way to have him on Christmas morning.

He wants to look good to his new GF. I bet she's also said 'no way' to coming to yours on Xmas Day.

I’m going to assume your ds would rather wake up at home with all his stuff around him. Dead beat dad can shove off, frankly.

I’m in absolute shock at the women on this thread who think this deadbeat, who pays zero maintenance for and makes zero effort with his son, should have him on Christmas morning.

WTF.

As the OP has said His dad is always welcome to pop round on Christmas Day if he wants and has done the last couple of years with his last girlfriend presumably it would be whatever time he likes.

She works her arse off all year round working to facilitate him seeing their son. She has one more year of him ‘believing’ and he doesn’t get to waltz in and take that from her because he fancies playing Disney dad in front of his new girlfriend. It’s not in the child’s best interests to start to believe that his dad considers him a priority when his interest in spending time with him coincides with the new girlfriend. What happens if they break up? Does the child then get dropped again?

The trouble is that you have let him off the hook as far as being a parent is concerned. Am wondering why? Is it because you want control of bringing up your DS? Not surprising as your ex sounds like a selfish irresponsible deadbeat. But for your DS's sake you probably need to involve your ex more - primarily by demanding he pays proper maintenance, and insist he steps up and be interested in DS and his activities. As far as Christmas is concerned, you call the shots as he does not involve himself day to day, week to week.

I agree with this 👆

She doesn't need to do any of this. She's left the door wide open for him at every turn and will obviously continue to do so. This one time she has said no and suddenly the problem is that she's not doing enough? No.

You're not being unreasonable, I wouldn't allow it. To have the best Christmas, your son would be better off waking up in his own room with his presents downstairs to look forward to. I would invite them both to see him in the morning as usual at your house and have that as the only option.

I would say no.

I would say that Christmas Day can be shared next year IF your ex starts acting like a proper father. That means paying full maintenance, seeing his child at least twice a week, attending parents' evening, football matches, etc etc. If he does this week in week out for the whole year, I'd agree that Christmas needs to be split in some way. Either split the day or do turn about years.

If your ex wants to carry on being useless, then next year your child should as usual spend Christmas Day with the parent who actually shows him real ongoing love. Not the one who says he loves him, but never shows it.

Hard to say, there are two sides to every story.

you seem at pains to stress how amicable your break-up was, and how well you get on together, then spent the rest of your post trying to paint your ex in the worst light possible.

bottom line is I don’t think this is about what you or your ex wants; your implication is your son is not a younger child (I’m assuming 10+) and, as such, is old enough to decide what he would like. So I would find out his preference, and then make a decision and a plan between the three of you.

Sorry OP but I think you’re under-reacting to how crap he is.

He sounds like a total deadbeat and I’d be keeping contact to the bare minimum because his attitude and approach to fatherhood is so poor.

He has shown you - and your son - who he is for years now. Prioritising his time and money for himself and moving in to cocklodge with the first stupid woman who lets him.

So stand firm on Christmas Day, protect your son and claim the CMS your child deserves - you have nothing to lose.

All that matters is how your son will feel on Christmas morning.

If he is used to staying in the place your ex proposes he stays on Christmas Eve and can express a fully informed opinion, based on these experiences, that he would like to wake up there on Christmas morning then you really ought to support that.

From what you've said already, I think it's unlikely that he's used to staying there and wouldn't feel at home. If that's the case, it's your job to protect him and make sure that he's in a place where he feels comfortable, relaxed and loved on Christmas morning, i.e. at home with you.

Try to change the focus of your thinking from what his dad has earned to what is best for your DS. Once you've done that, the answer to how you should handle it will be obvious.

If you decide he's coming back to you on Christmas Eve, do you have a strategy to prevent your ex from just refusing to hand him over?

I agree.

It sounds like you are a great mum for so many reasons mentioned in your post. Your son is lucky to have you.

It very much looks like your ex is trying to show his gf that he's not the deadbeat dad he actually is.

Stick to your usually arrangements and if he was to stand up and be there properly for his son, financially and otherwise, you can change things over time but right not his half assed effort doesn't allow him to dictate terms.

She’s offered for him to come to her as he has done in past years.

Good point.

Unless your DS really wants to spend the night there, YANBU at all. And even if he does really want to, there are a bunch of circumstances that mean it could still be reasonable to say no.

I always asked DC what THEY wanted to do for Christmas. I would give lots of options, stay at home/dads Xmas eve, come home morning/afternoon/evening/boxing day, dinner with mum/dad. The only thing I would say was that they should see both parents, but could do that however they wanted. I don’t get how these “parents” who don’t show up for the day to day lives of their kids expect them to fit a round what they want for holidays. If you don’t show up, don’t expect your kids to want to either.

My ex did the bare minimum and would throw tantrums because DC wanted to wake up in the house they viewed as home, go to dad’s for a few hours and then come home in time for dinner.

Is this a new girlfriend that ex is trying to impress, or the gF who visited last year?

Christmas is really about children. What does your son want? What you or ex think is not really important.

He's getting away with a hell of a lot here and it is (very understandably) breeding resentment. This situation re Christmas feels like the straw that has broken the camel's back.

Regardless of whatever you decide about Christmas, his maintenance and access needs to be properly formalised and agreed.

Your child deserves the maintenance money, and to have access properly agreed - both of these things are not for you, they're for the benefit of your child - I'm saying this in the hope that it helps you to consider what to do next.

Good luck!

Even if your DS wanted to go I would be reluctant. Obviously because he’s a deadbeat Dad doing the bare minimum so doesn’t deserve the privilege. But also because he is highly unlikely to make Christmas morning as magical and special as an 8 year old deserves. Your DS won’t realize this of course and will be in for a big disappointment.

This will be about what the new girlfriend wants. I respect you for your stance to date, making a bad situation into the best it can be for your boy, but the time has come to set some new boundaries I think.

Has dad’s new gf got children? I find that men, previously un-interested, generally try to impress on new gf’s what a super involved parent they are, especially if new gf has children herself. Tbh, I’d compromise a little, and suggest instead of having your ds on xmas eve, that he picks him up from yours Christmas Day evening and then keeps him Boxing Day?

It depends on the child though. Some will feel absolutely torn by being put in the position of having to choose, and will find it stressful having to make a choice between parents.