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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not heard you mentioning this Rachel?

110 replies

Lazyusername · 27/11/2025 16:06

AIBU to think this is absolutely outrageous.

https://x.com/LaraInCornwall/status/1993749174404444230

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 27/11/2025 19:13

BloominNora · 27/11/2025 18:39

Not an economist, just a data analyst with a lot of experience in mapping outcomes against activity in the public sector (including value for money, the impact of poverty and the long term impact of short sighted decisions) as well as an academic background and ongoing interest in social science and psychology including the consequences of a widening wealth gap in terms of overall societal health and wellbeing.

It's the reason I always say give me the facts and the data, not opinion and tabloid headlines.

I have and will change my mind about things if the data (from a published, reliable, official source) is there to back it up.

But alas, as demonstrated wonderfully by the OP, we are so far into a post fact / alternative fact rabbit hole, that people are much more likely to enjoy getting mad and shouting at each other from their individualistic, ideologically driven partisan positions than having calm, sensible, fact based discussions about what is right for the country as a whole.

Not many people will accept things that don't benefit them or negatively affect them personally, even if it is better for the country and therefore everyone (including them) in the long run. Short term individualism kills long term pragmatism every single time!

That’s fine but you’re still coming from an ideological standpoint.

happysunr1se · 27/11/2025 19:20

Just checked my business rates for next year, gone up 5k even with the budget announced lower multiplier applied.

When I heard the budget yesterday the only positive thing they were doing for my small retail business is reducing my rates.

Now I've seen the rates bill, It doesn't count as a reduction in my view if you put it up a whole load before putting it down just a little.
Rubbish

Southernecho · 27/11/2025 20:08

Lazyusername · 27/11/2025 16:39

Where did I say I didn't check them first? Hilarious!

You literally said "i ve just checked my rates..."

You clearly didn't, what sort of business do you run!!! 😂

sussexman · 27/11/2025 21:14

Dreamtitchy · 27/11/2025 18:00

Or they are just bull shitting

It's real. It doesn't take a great deal of research to discover the property and rateable values are public. There's a similar increase in rateable value for the other pub in the same postcode. A 3x increase in assessed rental value since 2018 seems unlikely.

BloominNora · 27/11/2025 22:25

EasternStandard · 27/11/2025 19:13

That’s fine but you’re still coming from an ideological standpoint.

I don't deny my ideology - I'm a left leaning centrist because I believe in robust public services that benefit everyone, that health care should be free at the point of need, that every child and young adult is entitled to a free, good quality education, that there should be a social safety net for those who need it.

But I also think that hard work and creativity should be rewarded. That everyone regardless of background should have the ability to better themselves and be able to earn money to buy nice things. But that has to be balanced by those who earn more paying more tax. I think billionaires are an abomination.

Those positions come from a combination of personal experience (working class, low income family background, first person in family to go to uni, now in the higher income bracket) and professional public sector experience combined with academic study and an inbuilt need to understand facts.

We've had this discussion before. The data shows that during the last Labour government the economy and public services performed better than the Tory governments either side of them. A lot of people try to deny that but no-one ever provides the data to back it up - because it doesn't exist.

Ideologically - I prefer this government to the thought of Kemi Badenoch and what is left of the Tories and am completely horrified at the thought of a Reform government. I would much more prefer proportional representation and a centre left coalition led by Lib Dems but I'm notvever going to get that, so I'll go with what I can get.

I don't like Rachel Reeves or Starmer that much and I certainly don't agree with everything they are doing - the ISA cuts and freezing of the tax thresholds are short sighted and the pension tax relief cuts are right but far too severe (the limit should have been £20k not £2k).

I agree with her on the dividend tax (which will affect me) scrapping the benefit cap and the minimum wage equalisation (but am dubious of the timing of that one so soon after the NI rise) and am pretty neutral on much of the rest of it.

Whether what she is doing will work or not remains to be seen. Early indications are it might...bond markets have calmed, growth is very very slowly creeping up, debt forecasts look positive, inflation is slowing down, investment is going into public services, health waiting lists are coming down.

None of it is happening quick enough for my liking and we do not have the evidence to say whether these things will stick long term, all we can do is wait. If all of this turns out to have put the country in a worse position, it won't change my ideology but I won't be defending their actions just because they are Labour.

However the one thing I can't stand is people who spread outright lies (left or right), either because they believe everything they hear in their echo chamber of choice or because they can't or won't take the time to understand facts.

Nonsense like the OP here or any number of the benefit / motobility scheme / asylum seeker bashing threads are just damaging, divisive rubbish designed to keep us bickering, because if we were to actually unite, despite our ideologically differences, and figure out compromises that work to improve society, the people who fuel that division would be the ones that lose out - and they know it.

EasternStandard · 27/11/2025 22:37

BloominNora · 27/11/2025 22:25

I don't deny my ideology - I'm a left leaning centrist because I believe in robust public services that benefit everyone, that health care should be free at the point of need, that every child and young adult is entitled to a free, good quality education, that there should be a social safety net for those who need it.

But I also think that hard work and creativity should be rewarded. That everyone regardless of background should have the ability to better themselves and be able to earn money to buy nice things. But that has to be balanced by those who earn more paying more tax. I think billionaires are an abomination.

Those positions come from a combination of personal experience (working class, low income family background, first person in family to go to uni, now in the higher income bracket) and professional public sector experience combined with academic study and an inbuilt need to understand facts.

We've had this discussion before. The data shows that during the last Labour government the economy and public services performed better than the Tory governments either side of them. A lot of people try to deny that but no-one ever provides the data to back it up - because it doesn't exist.

Ideologically - I prefer this government to the thought of Kemi Badenoch and what is left of the Tories and am completely horrified at the thought of a Reform government. I would much more prefer proportional representation and a centre left coalition led by Lib Dems but I'm notvever going to get that, so I'll go with what I can get.

I don't like Rachel Reeves or Starmer that much and I certainly don't agree with everything they are doing - the ISA cuts and freezing of the tax thresholds are short sighted and the pension tax relief cuts are right but far too severe (the limit should have been £20k not £2k).

I agree with her on the dividend tax (which will affect me) scrapping the benefit cap and the minimum wage equalisation (but am dubious of the timing of that one so soon after the NI rise) and am pretty neutral on much of the rest of it.

Whether what she is doing will work or not remains to be seen. Early indications are it might...bond markets have calmed, growth is very very slowly creeping up, debt forecasts look positive, inflation is slowing down, investment is going into public services, health waiting lists are coming down.

None of it is happening quick enough for my liking and we do not have the evidence to say whether these things will stick long term, all we can do is wait. If all of this turns out to have put the country in a worse position, it won't change my ideology but I won't be defending their actions just because they are Labour.

However the one thing I can't stand is people who spread outright lies (left or right), either because they believe everything they hear in their echo chamber of choice or because they can't or won't take the time to understand facts.

Nonsense like the OP here or any number of the benefit / motobility scheme / asylum seeker bashing threads are just damaging, divisive rubbish designed to keep us bickering, because if we were to actually unite, despite our ideologically differences, and figure out compromises that work to improve society, the people who fuel that division would be the ones that lose out - and they know it.

You can put forward your case but yes you’ve mentioned the last Labour gov already, however you need to include context and risk exposure which then meant a hefty crash as the downside. Besides Blair was not anti growth and has recently called for tax cuts. Something Starmer and Reeves won’t do.

The crash originated with sub prime but we were reliant on that growth too and leveraged in terms of gambling on those products.

You’re better off being realistic about this Labour gov and what growth it will achieve. We’ll see if the tax and spend (on welfare this time) brings about much. Or behaviour means growth stalls.

BloominNora · 27/11/2025 23:16

Yes, Brown admitted that in hindsight he shouldn't have reduced the financial oversight of the banks. He learned from it. He was also credited for his strong world leadership in addressing the crash and encouraging otherworld leaders to take action which meant the fallout was not as bad as it might have been.

I'm neither realistic, nor unrealistic about whether what Labour are currently doing this time will work. As I said, I think they've got some things wrong, but that is from an ideologically standpoint because no-one can know for sure until the changes have bedded in.

What I do know, with absolute, data backed certainty, is that the only thing that leads to true, sustainable and embedded growth is solid public services and wages that aren't stagnating - and whether or not I agree with everything they are doing in raising money, you cannot deny that they are investing money in public services.

A countries economy will not grow if increasing numbers of people can't get health care and are unfit for work, if young people don't get a decent education, if families struggle to find appropriate, affordable housing and if infrastructure is decaying.

The victorian entrepreneurs knew that. Why do you think Cadbury built the houses for his workers in Bournville and gave them Saturday afternoons and bank holidays off, provided medical and dental benefits, pensions, death benefits, education and recreational facilities. He understood that for Cadbury's to be successful then workers needed to be looked after. If he invested in them then they would reward him and the company with improved productivity and loyalty.

Alongwalky · 28/11/2025 06:13

You seem to rely quite heavily entirely on X for your news OP

EasternStandard · 28/11/2025 07:03

BloominNora · 27/11/2025 23:16

Yes, Brown admitted that in hindsight he shouldn't have reduced the financial oversight of the banks. He learned from it. He was also credited for his strong world leadership in addressing the crash and encouraging otherworld leaders to take action which meant the fallout was not as bad as it might have been.

I'm neither realistic, nor unrealistic about whether what Labour are currently doing this time will work. As I said, I think they've got some things wrong, but that is from an ideologically standpoint because no-one can know for sure until the changes have bedded in.

What I do know, with absolute, data backed certainty, is that the only thing that leads to true, sustainable and embedded growth is solid public services and wages that aren't stagnating - and whether or not I agree with everything they are doing in raising money, you cannot deny that they are investing money in public services.

A countries economy will not grow if increasing numbers of people can't get health care and are unfit for work, if young people don't get a decent education, if families struggle to find appropriate, affordable housing and if infrastructure is decaying.

The victorian entrepreneurs knew that. Why do you think Cadbury built the houses for his workers in Bournville and gave them Saturday afternoons and bank holidays off, provided medical and dental benefits, pensions, death benefits, education and recreational facilities. He understood that for Cadbury's to be successful then workers needed to be looked after. If he invested in them then they would reward him and the company with improved productivity and loyalty.

Yes but you need a strong private sector for that. Even Starmer / Reeves have said you cat tax your way to growth and Blair has backed tax cuts do he knows it too.

No one is against funding stuff, spending is the easy part. It’s the raising the funds that’s harder and growth being downgraded and no incentives for it in the private sector is an issue.

We do spend a lot on health and welfare is incredibly high. We still need the private sector to be encouraged to be strong.

Keep in mind Labour even have said higher taxes won’t do that.

Ragtoe · 28/11/2025 17:50

Goodness OP, you put a lot of faith in X for your news

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