Not heard you mentioning this Rachel?

[Lazyusername]

AIBU to think this is absolutely outrageous.

https://x.com/LaraInCornwall/status/1993749174404444230

But if you drive all of the small businesses to close (over 5 million of them and making up over 90% of all of our businesses) there won't be anyone left to pay. Can you see that?

I have to go and make my tea now. I just wanted people to be aware of this. Have a great evening everyone. Nice arguing with you!! 😄

Amazingly, I just think an intelligent value add discussion needs more than “puppet” but you do you

You make a good point about small businesses. They are really the backbone of the private sector, just as they are throughout Europe, and yet are seemingly ignored by politicians of all parties.

The majority of private sector employees (60%) work in SME businesses, but the political parties would rather talk to the CBI - i.e. the big employers - than representatives of the SMEs. Just this week there was the unedifying sight of Badenoch calling for smaller government (i.e. more outsourcing and more privatisation) at the CBI conference chaired by Rupert Soames, who is the former CEO of Serco, one of the largest companies profiting from providing precisely these services. Soames asked a Badenoch a few soft questions - he could just as well have written her speech for her.

Do you really think you’ve hit upon some outcome that no one else considered?

don’t you think the government have teams of experts whose responsibility it is to model outcomes and advise on mitigations and impacts? And that they do have more knowledge and expertise than a small business persons “idea” of what might happen?

Yes - my business rate valuation has shot up too. Not as bad as some but here in Wales there is no taper relief like there is in England so some will be going out of business.

Jump on Twitter and ask them what it was rated prior to 2023 - I will bet money on the fact that it was closer to £73,000 than £22,000.

The 2023 rateable value was based on the value of the property in 2021 - you know - when most pubs were still in pandemic recovery phase, and 1000's were closing. You could pick up a pub for virtually nothing then.

Prior to that rates were set in 2017 based on 2015 values. Most pubs saw a decrease in the rateable value in 2023 from the 2017 figure because of the pandemic.

In normal times, it would have actually been an increase which means this re-evaluation would not have been as steep!

I suspect it also isn't a huge concern for this budget, firstly because it is not part of the budget process, it is standard government procedure which happens every three to five years and secondly because the taper relief that is in place for the next three years, which means that the business rates bill for both of those landlords won't actually increase that much for three years.

So the government actually has plenty of time to tackle the issue before it becomes a major problem for landlords.

But I can tell by the way you've talked about 'typical Labour supporters' being out in force and linked a standard process to a budget that it has nothing to do with that you're just a typical Tory supporter who doesn't like to let the facts get in the way of a good anti-Labour rant!

Jump on Twitter and ask them what it was rated prior to 2023 - I will bet money on the fact that it was closer to £73,000 than £22,000.

yep

I am not going to get exercised about someone I know bugger all about spouting figures from thin air on…. x

I think if you see it alongside increased business costs from changes to NI etc then yeah a lot of small businesses are going to suffer. Unemployment has gone up and this is just going to make it worse.

It looks like a valuations office cockup, not a Rachel Reeves thing. There's an appeals process.

Or they are just bull shitting

There hasn't been anyone competent in charge of the economy since Alistair Darling.

You are not suggesting that any of the Tory lot were more competent? Or that they weren't puppets of the Tufton Street think tanks are you?

I mean which one of these do you think was actually a competent chancellor?

George Osborne - raised taxes for lower earners while decreasing them for higher earners, cut funding for public services, cancelled Building Schools for the Future, plus other false economy 'savings' which have ended up costing the country billions. Put us in a slow growth position with slower recovery after the financial crash than most other countries which has persisted up until now.

Philip Hammond - back pedalled on the self employment NICS rise which was actually a decent thing, expanded IR35, costing the public sector £100,000's in administrative costs and reduced the talent pool, cut taxes for higher earners while doing nothing for lower earners.

Sajid Javid - who knows for sure what he might have done - he actually had some good intentions, which obviously weren't popular given he was ordered to sack his entire team of advisors and got sacked resigned for refusing to do so.

Rishi Sunak - 'Eat out to help out', Covid Fast Lane (Michelle Mone, Matt Hancock's local pub landlord (wonder what he thinks of his new rateable value)), responsible for the biggest income tax rise in decades, froze the income tax thresholds,

Nadhim Zahawi - Got sacked Resigned for not declaring the HMRC investigation which found he owed £5million in tax

Kwasi Kwarteng - Crashed the markets and our already fragile economy causing interest rates to increase significantly for everyone!

Not at all. I think every one of them is so incompetent it's like watching monkeys trying to shag a football.

Rachel has done so badly that I can see a bond strike happening. Then there will be a run on the GB Peso, and then a Sterling crash. Just have to hope that people are prepared enough to weather it all.

Are you an economist? Maybe you could give it a go.

Tell us when you think this wilL happen- I’m going to bookmark it to come back and laugh

Well that’s not going to help growth is it? Hospitality is dire at the moment with people unable to afford to eat out, NI hikes for employers and now rates. Financially incompetent chancellor.

Do you know what those are and what they mean?

Yes, I imagine you will be laughing, the question will be as to whether you'll be laughing from being entertained or from despairing over how horrible everything is going to get.

It will affect everyone.

I don't think the bond markets agree with you - they actually seemed to like the budget:

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/sterling-uk-bond-prices-rise-whippy-trading-reeves-budget-soothes-some-nerves-2025-11-26/

Well of course they did. The majority of the electorate are economically illiterate. They can't tell the truth of how they really feel, otherwise panic ensues.

But first female Chancellor and all that. Got to stick it to the men, haven't we?

You truly do see an almost apocalyptic scenario as a result of this don’t you?!

Well yeh it’s ignoring a pledge and whacking on £26bn in taxes. It’s voters who won’t like it.

Dates please! Tomorrow? Next week? January?!

Not an economist, just a data analyst with a lot of experience in mapping outcomes against activity in the public sector (including value for money, the impact of poverty and the long term impact of short sighted decisions) as well as an academic background and ongoing interest in social science and psychology including the consequences of a widening wealth gap in terms of overall societal health and wellbeing.

It's the reason I always say give me the facts and the data, not opinion and tabloid headlines.

I have and will change my mind about things if the data (from a published, reliable, official source) is there to back it up.

But alas, as demonstrated wonderfully by the OP, we are so far into a post fact / alternative fact rabbit hole, that people are much more likely to enjoy getting mad and shouting at each other from their individualistic, ideologically driven partisan positions than having calm, sensible, fact based discussions about what is right for the country as a whole.

Not many people will accept things that don't benefit them or negatively affect them personally, even if it is better for the country and therefore everyone (including them) in the long run. Short term individualism kills long term pragmatism every single time!

"Rachel has done so badly that I can see a bond strike happening"

"Well of course they did" [like the budget]

Both of those things can't be true can they? They aren't going to strike if they like the budget, which they do, because they have reacted positively, which is lowering guilt prices and therefore the cost of government borrowing.

If that can be maintained then it will reduce the debt to GDP ratio and boost growth.

On a personal level, it should help to slow inflation and will lead to an interest rate cut, which will increase disposable income for mortgage payers. Several rate cuts over the next couple of years will increase people's disposable income by more than any of the tax increases and people will feel the benefit quicker given interest rate cuts are more instant and most of the tax hikes are deferred for two to three years.

There is also the possibility that if there is enough growth off the promise of the tax rises, that by the time it actually comes to them, the could be reversed.