To be delighted PIP assessments are to be face to face?

[PAYE]

The only good thing about the budget is that Rachel Reeves announced that face to face assessments for PIP and disability benefits are being brought back. AIBU to think that this is a great thing?

It will make sure that the money goes to those who need it. It is madness that such face to face assessments were ever stopped.

I hope you complained and got a reassessment from a different assessor. As an outreach worker I saw a lot of this - happens mainly with home visits because assessors don’t have time to fully complete the paperwork from one visit before they’re on to the next. I’ve seen some appalling mistakes on reports that have led to claimants being denied benefit.

My daughter (asd) was assessed by a physiotherapist.

She was 16, he was about 50.

He asked her if she chatted to her friends in the evening on her phone.

She said yes.

He scored her zero points.

He meant "do you and your close friends call each other and chat for half an hour".

She meant she sent one word text messages to people whose number she had.

This is where the lack of understanding of conditions falls down. They dont understand the context.

I know about PIP thanks - been a disability outreach worker for twenty years and have dealt with PiP since its introduction in 2013. I’ve made successful PIP applications on behalf of claimants and supported them at assessments and appeal tribunals. I know how it works - or should I say, is supposed to work.

I didn’t say the disability itself is assessed - it isn’t. And that’s as it should be because no disability affects any two people in exactly the same way. But that doesn’t mean that the assessor doesn’t need a working knowledge of the condition of the person in front of them because the assessment doesn’t just cover what they are able to do in the half hour it takes to complete the assessment.

It’s an assessment of how their condition may fluctuate and affect them day to day. It’s whether they can do something, not just once, but as often as necessary throughout the day, whether they can do it repeatedly, reliably, safely and in a reasonable time frame. It’s also about whether completing one activity has a knock on effect on something else. For example, if you’re so tired after washing and dressing that you can’t prepare yourself breakfast, then that is factored in, as is pain, breathlessness and discomfort. Assessors also need to know how certain medications work and their side effects, so they can factor that into cognitive or functional ability. So it’s nonsense to say they don’t need knowledge of a range of disabilities because without that they won’t know if what the claimants is reporting is a reasonable expectation of their condition.

I feel sorry for my last assessor. 3 hours and 50 minutes. A lot of it was due to selective mutism, and I was obviously his last call of the day, and he was late calling me!

Unfortunately, him being late calling me just added to my distress, and that's what stopped me being able to talk.

I think if they had pulled me into a centre to do an assessment then it would definitely have taken much longer than that too. Anybody thinking forced F2F assessments are something to celebrate haven't got a clue what they're being so gleeful about.

Yep. It’s nonsense to suggest that you can accurately assess how someone’s condition affects them without knowing anything about the actual condition you’re looking at. Context is everything.

It will make sure that the money goes to those who need it. It is madness that such face to face assessments were ever stopped.

😂😂😂😂😂
And how will they tell he difference between a good carer keeping a disabled person fed, clean and dressed nicely vs a person doing it for themselves?

The F2F pip assessments of the past resulted in assessor making assumptions based in bias and prejudice

Agree. I find the title of the thread quite insulting to be honest.

I just find it weird. Imagine having such a sad little life that it makes you delighted.

I think regular face to face assessments are appropriate, as long as they can be carried out at home.

Yes. They’ve been given a specific budget and extra staffing to deal with fraud.

The distress caused to people with lifelong conditions by reassessment is cruel, and an absurd waste of resources. Someone who is 40, non verbal, fragile X... strangely enough, they probably won't become tremendously employable in the foreseeable future.

The change is about social cohesion, not cost saving. Sad, isn't it.

Some conditions & some individuals should be reconsidered - eg injuries that have the potential to improve - but why should I, as a taxpayer, shell out 40k a year to someone who cannot possibly be expected to guess, without medical information, if someone really has debilitating pain, or is genuinely experiencing mutism, or whatever? Whilst causing huge distress to people who are genuine. I'd much rather take the risk of someone claiming dishonestly.

But it’s not a medical appointment is it? And my son is a British citizen with exactly the same rights as you. He absolutely shouldn’t have to rely on charity or his parents to apply for support.

I'm not an immigrant. I've got dual nationality.

I'm sure you will relish the chance to pay more tax to fund people like my nephew on his overseas jaunts while claiming PIP.

I agree that they outright lie and say things like the claimant showed no signs of pain or had no trouble walking even when they are in agony and can hardly move! Face to face assessments are useless when the accessors tell lies.

I’m sorry about your daughter. That sounds incredibly hard. Just to say though, I have not made any assumption that looking after my child would be any more difficult than looking after your own, given that I was answering a specific post that made no reference to your daughter’s disability. I was referring to what seemed like your rather blasé attitude to anxiety. Anxiety is a catch all term for so many conditions, some of which are extremely debilitating. I have an aunt (now in a care home) who, as an adult, had long periods of needing round the clock supervision due to her anxiety and the potential danger to herself associated with it. Also bouts of agoraphobia and psychosis. All due to anxiety. Not all anxiety is equal. Indeed the needs of those suffering from the serious physical conditions you mentioned aren’t all equal either. One person could need a huge amount of financial help to put them on a level playing field with others, while someone else needs nothing. My BIL has MS and is the principal of a school, coping very well. Another person with MS could be extremely debilitated because it affects everyone differently. Just like anxiety. I don’t think it is ever fair to categorise everyone in the same way just because of the name of their condition.

As long as the assessors are qualified specialist consultants, doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. Not a paramedic deciding what a GP isn't qualified to speculate on.

It’s like employing a random off mumsnet to be a PIP assessor. It would be 0 points galore for claimants!

So much this! I've never applied for PIP, but when I had my health assessment for capability for work, whoever it was at the end of the phone did not believe that I would go without milk for my tea rather than leave the house to buy milk.
And apparently because i can plan a train journey I'm capable of travelling. I can plan it, but wouldn't have left the house to make it!

I made a mistake! Yesterday I said that a PIP assessor had an appointment that lasted hours with a relative. This was wrong. It was actually someone who had come out from an organisation to help them complete the forms. Sorry!

It'll be the same story, nothing will change. Those who need a genuine safety net for a short period will get nothing, and those who've played the system for most of their lives will remain parked and on benefits.

I've got a cousin who is 48, and has been on benefits for almost 30 years. Free car too. She must have been paid about a quarter of a million in benefits over that 30 years! All because she has no compunction about telling bare faced lies regarding her health. It's people like her who need to be rooted out of the system, but instead it'll be the genuine cases who are left without.

Of all the people claiming PIP ( and i know lots) i believe that only two of them are completely genuine cases who told the full truth! One woman claims for depression, anxiety and says she cannot leave the house while claiming DLA for both kids ( undiagnosed but shes adamant they have adhd and asd). She has pictures of her and the kids all over her social media going on holiday and numerous days out etc. she has been reported twice and twice they have done absolutely nothing about it! She thinks its all a big joke!

My point is, looking after someone with severe mental health problems is harder than someone with learning disabilities, because they are more articulate and irrational.

It’s easier to get residential care for DD1 (and it’s not cheap), but when DD2 is an inpatient, it’s £500 per night (considerably more).

In your experience. You really shouldn't assume.

That's terrible OP. The reintroduction of face to face interviews will just be one sign of broader changes resulting in harder times to come for the ill and disabled, it is a destruction of the net

Do you really believe that your cousin who hasn't worked in years is mentally stable or well ?

I know there's a significant element of choice. She's both intelligent and entitled, she's quite the force of nature. She's also morbidly obese, which I suspect is at the root of everything. She's a past master at what to claim health wise, and as I said has no compunction about lying/exaggerating.

I don't care in truth what she does, however it's a frustrating situation when those genuinely in need who tell the truth, without exaggerating, are often denied financial assistance on technicalities. Whilst those without that moral compass will lie and exaggerate their way to financial assistance. In fairness, I don't think it's an issue (ie malingerers in general) that can be solved.