To think that people who admire Dubai's low crime rate often miss the fact that it's partly due to nearly 90% of the population being temporary workers?

[Carla786]

Some people might remember a week or so ago on AIBU there was a thread about whether the OP should move to Dubai. Many posts praised the low crime rate & compared it favourably to UK.

I was critical of this for several reasons. Checking facts later, I realised that nearly 90% of Dubai residents are Expat workers or migrants who've held in a restrictive system (the kafala system has been strongly criticised for being essentially indentured servitude, and there have been reforms but it still seems concerning).

It's unsurprising crime, especially violent crime, would be low when most people are either temporary expats or people who've likewise been sourced specifically to come and work (and are held in a punitive system), and whose families often depend on the remittances they're sending back.

Obviously the harsh criminal code in Dubai (though there have again been some recent reforms) plays a role, but the population makeup alone makes comments on Dubai's superior morality/crime control etc very questionable.

I myself think policing and crime need serious reforms in the UK but people comparing it to Dubai favourably are comparing apples to authoritarian oranges.

I lived in China for a while and felt very safe possibly due to there still being capital punishment

You can't compare apples and pears - two completely different societies.

There is obviously more actual crime in Dubai than any official statistics would show, due to lack of reporting e.g. sexual assault, drug dealing, abuse of domestic staff, business fraud, etc.

Crime is more than visible street robbery and shoplifting, which exercises us here.

This exchange has reminded me of a convo I had recently. I’ve just spent several weeks in the US and found it to be clean, efficient, Can Do, nothing too much trouble, masses of selection in shops, people happy. I said as much on my return and was told by a friend that I had rose coloured spectacles on considering the absolute state the US is in at the moment… she’s never been there, all her info is from social media. People are just so committed to their disapproval of certain countries and how they do things that they assert that the reality of being there must be misery and “quiet despair” 🙄

And it’s a huge centre for money laundering and organised crime.

“Preferred beliefs around countries you disapprove of…”

…or contributing constructively to a discussion based on my own lived experience. Or am I not allowed to do that because it might hurt your feelings? Because you happen to know someone who lives there. And they happen to tell
you it’s great.

I’ve never been, can’t afford to go but I have several relatives living there. They will not return, they’ve set up businesses, established themselves. They miss family in the UK but they have a higher standard of living there. Better salaries, property is smaller- flats but they are well immersed in the local fitness community so spend a lot of time out in the evenings running/exercising etc.

They seem to have a high quality life!

But going on holiday for several weeks ( or even working there for a short snapshot) does not give you an overview of the whole country. America is vast! And each state is basically like a different country. You could equally come to where I live in the U.K. for ‘several weeks’ and would assume by visiting here that the U.K. is a near perfect place to live. (It’s a national park so beautiful , very low crime rate. Great schools. Very neighbourly. Etc etc.) but we know that’s not the case everywhere in the U.K. and we know what it’s like to live here permanently when you see below the surface.

That’s because police states are a bad thing.

Absolutely

Many of the migrant workers from S Asia are not even allowed to keep their passports.

It certainly gives me more of an overview than a person who has never been there - I travel there annually. It’s in response to the constant assertions that it’s some kind of hellscape since Trump took charge. It certainly isn’t and tbh seems to be going far better than the UK as does Dubai…

Massive levels of cognitive dissonance are needed to be comfortable with what Dubai is, so it’s unsurprising that actual facts like those around crime are ignored.

Gulf countries are lovely if you are white. Not if you are not. I lived in one as a child.

It always makes me laugh when people use the term “Dubai bashing,” as if they’re defending a helpless child being unfairly bullied. They act like any criticism comes from jealousy and that none of the unpleasant realities are true.

I’ve lived there, and it really does suck. My opinions come from firsthand experience and observation. The people defending Dubai who have never actually lived there have no real argument for why it’s supposedly such a great place to live and they have no ground for denying any of the criticisms.

Because the immigrants there are never allowed indefinite leave to remain or citizenship. If they step out of line or even if a Uae citizen takes a dislike to them and makes a spurious complaint with no evidence they are deported and can never return. My cousin was born there, was caught smoking Cannabis ( he says) and was deported. His parents were quite wealthy immigrant workers too. Not the indentured servitude types.

Were/are they black Africans, or women from Asia? I have Nigerian friends, in the UK on work visas, they have absolute horror stories from who they've known, working in Dubai.
No crimes against women and girls are recorded properly, no crimes against vulnerable workers are recorded. People are killed, paid off, threatened with life imprisonment etc.
@Wfhftm more indentured servants and trafficked people than immigrants. The immigrants have to be self funding, which is why it appears good.

Really beginning to despise Jo Malone these days. Ok, move there if you want to. But now she's putting out promotional videos for Dubai and praising the despot ruler.

Of course, there are a lot of terrible countries. But they don't get the advertising Dubai does.

But equally my close friends live in the US and hate it and are desperate to get out. They LIVE there. They see what’s going on, on a day to day basis and read all the news we don’t get. Dubai likes to paint itself as a shiny new, perfect place to live and I’m sure it is if you are of a certain income level and like shallow living and playing by the rules…but god forbid you don’t fit in to the right demographic or sexual persuasion or race or earning bracket or you fall slightly foul of the system some how and are carried off, never to be see again. Everything is brushed under the carpet.

I have lived in the US and enjoyed it. However, the level of crime is frightening. I left before having kids but knowing that the number two cause of death in young people is murder is pretty awful. It is also now very divided politically with extremism on both sides on the rise. The level of racism has also grown hugely, and I wouldn't want to subject my kids to that.

So do you think crime stats, stories about their health system, school shootings, treatment of migrants, roll back on women's right etc are all social media lies? Or maybe both things can be true?

A town in America could be clean, but your neighbour could take a gun to school and shoot your kids. There might be lots of choice in shops, but if you get cancer and don't have adequate insurance you're either financially ruined or dead. People are happy, until they're not anymore.

I think when your friend talks about 'the state America is in' I think she's probably talking about these big issues rather than meaning 'the streets are full of litter and there is very little choice in the shops'.

Dubai shows how easily wealth buys influence and loyalty. Money blinds people, erasing principles and replacing them with self-interest. Wrongdoing is excused if it pays off. The way one nation can lure another with money is very sad. People will always find a way to justify and defend their choices. Regardless of their morals or previous views.

Thing is though so many Brits will overlook anything for a bit of out of season sun - personally for me it was too hot ( may) - and quite boring unless you like malls a lot - I thought it was very expensive too if you wanted to drink at all - really depends what you like doing, if you like luxury brands shopping and lying around your very flash room it is probably fine -honestly if you want that blingy vibe for a week or so I much much preferred Marbella, food way better, cheaper, proper old town too, and I had great weather in March as well

If anyone has actually lived in Dubai, and had a decent job, they will realise the lifestyle is second to none. Domestic help/ personal drivers are affordable, so we don’t have to worry about school pick ups/ after school care etc. It actually enabled us to spend more quality time with our kids without the domestic drudgery that comes with life. I see so many posts of people struggling with this in the UK. Who wouldn’t want that?

plus every form of activity and entertainment is available- at a cost.

of course there are negative sides to Dubai. However, it is a “happy” place for some. Everything is bright and vibrant and celebrated.

The sad truth is that where you fit into the Dubai machine shapes your entire experience there.

You’re fortunate to have good jobs and to enjoy the kind of lifestyle that brings. You can hire staff without having to dwell on the bigger picture or how those workers ended up in that situation or what their lives are really like.

I completely understand what you mean about the freedom it gives you, and I agree about the high standard of living available if you can afford it. That’s really the hardest part about coming home: accepting lower standards. My criticism is directed at the system itself.

I will agree with you that it will suit some - but not others -