Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

R.e. the 2 child benefit benefits cap:

A couple knew they wouldn't get more money for a third child yet still decided to have them... They have to be responsible for their decisions.

Absolutely this. Anyone on £100k+ household income who seriously thinks people on universal credit are better off than them needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. I don't like to think of anyone being unhappy but come on. Struggling as in would like more (most people) in no way compares with the reality of being actually poor - things like living with no heat or lights and eating cold baked beans due to energy bills (thankfully fewer but still too many people).

I'm not a high earner to be clear.

I chose to have a gap between my children so one was at school before the other came along. No one is forcing high earners to have two children at nursery simultaneously.

I pay as many people in cash as want it. The way this government hands out tax money, I’m happy to see decent hard working people avoid it as much as possible. And I say that as someone who has always been PAYE. Hairdresser, beauty therapist, car cleaner, dog kennels, any kind of building/plumbing work etc.

I don't disagree with funding sure starts, and properly finding mental health and other community services.

But I also don't think it's a competition of the most deserving poor and it does feel that way sometimes and it's almost as if nobody can imagine ever finding themselves in that situation

And this is why when you play the comparisons game as an employee paying via PAYE you feel like your losing. Everybody should be paying what is fair for the services that benefit everyone.

I am fully aware that I am an idealist, but nobody lies taxes but wants the services that they individually value

I for one am overjoyed that my attempts to save responsibly for my retirement are apparently going help pay to remove the child benefit cap.
I deliberately kept my family small because of childcare fees and so we could give them a good start and now my attempts to actually make my final years comfortable are going to be raided.
Bollocks to this.

I saw that they are going to top up savings if you get UC…the govt will add £50 a month if you save and get UC!

Most people can’t save …I don’t get this why are they giving free money on top of UC?

Martin Lewis mentioned it last night on his show he was given the heads up!

If you are borderline there is no real incentive to work when stuff like this is happening…

You can receive a bonus of up to £1200 for trose on UC..madness!! money is being thrown about it’s crazy and workers are being stuffed every which way.

Hmmm. DH and I are both high earners. I can simultaneously understand what OP is saying and also recognise that people in my position are incredibly fortunate (which i think the OP recognises as well). For me the issue is living standards, and the way our system pushes middle and high earners to tear each other apart. The main advantage to being high earners (top 5%, not top 1%) from my experience is that it allows you to save more for retirement and luxuries so you do not have to carry debt to have a holiday for example. It doesn't necesssrily translate to having a 'rich' life of travel, fast cars and shopping. People in my position often don't realise how many people have credit card debt, loans etc that they are using to fund holidays/car or esssential running costs like paying for a new boiler. DH and I earn a lot but we are also really careful with our money - we have one second hand car, one 1-week holiday per year with a carrier like Jet2, we don't eat out a lot or buy expensive clothes. We certainly couldn't afford 2 kids in private school without it requiring us to move house or take on debt. Being careful allows us to save to fund our kids going to uni (hopefully) in a few years, and put more into our pensions. These are luxuries that we don't 'feel' in our day to day living standards but are huge privileges that most people can't achieve and will pay forward to our kids. We do sometimes look around and think 'bloody hell, how are others able to afford that ski trip/private school/new Audi/wardrobe' etc but we quickly slap ourselves and acknowledge that it's either a choice to spend rather than save, or quite likely mounting up as debt. Society's perception of what a wealthy lifestyle is, and the reality, do not match (at least not until you are in the top 1% or higher). That's not a complaint, it is what it is and we're very lucky. But I can see how high earners might not feel rich because of this mismatch of perception and reality. Living standards across the board have plummeted and that makes it easy to feel resentful.

There was no choice from what I can see. Scotland was going to try and get rid of it. It doesn't look good on Westminster to not follow or get rid of it.

Open a LISA, the government will pay 25% interest upto £1,000 a year for you.

You still have to use your own money to save.

I don’t see what they spaff their money on as fair, so helping anyone who actually works hard, to avoid it, is fair game, in my book. That’s how you don’t feel like you’re losing. The Labour government will never help anyone who works feel like they are winning.

Plus you had to work to be entitled to do this. You do realise many on UC work??

a) If the top ~4% of earners can’t afford the cost of two children in nursery / two children within 4 years, that suggests the UK is in dire straits.

b) you have successfully ignored all the detail about cost and incentives, which is why it’s such a crap policy. It results in a lower tax take.

Can barely hear Reeves in parliament with all the shouting going on

He will reduce taxes...more money in our pockets.

The OBR released the budget in error 30 mins before her speech so everyone there has read it. No one cares what she has to say.

Still be nice if they acted like grown ups.

You do realise many on UC work??

And that's probably the root of a lot of this. That we as a country are such a low wage country that people who work need benefits. How are employers to be forced to pay better wages? It won't happen while the govt are making up the shortfall for companies.

But then even if companies did pay better would that stifle growth as maybe more companies would go under? Or if we have higher wages would that affect inflation and everything still remains unaffordable? I'm not an expert in economics at all so don't know the answer.

No one ever did, including labour when they were in opposition so why would they start now.

That's okay then!

Wouldn’t it just. The behaviour in Parliament is embarrassing from all parties - PMQs is more like an insult-throwing competition.

I think the problem is that when people earn more they simply lose a proportional sum of benefit - unless they can earn a lot more, so no longer reliant on benefit and better off , there is no incentive.

Kind of wonder if it were just women if it would be better.