Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Who do you think will pay your pension? They're paid by people currently in work, not a magical savings account. Anticipate you'll ever need any medical care? Better hope people are having kids so there are doctors. If you don't have kids to look after you, you'll need some staff in that care home!

Are people genuinely so main character they can't see the bigger picture there?

Of course it isn't a dirty word.
However you can't moan about nursery fees of £100 a day then complain about ideas to maj it more affordable.

(that means, incidentally, that young people with high nursery bills and insane accommodation costs are also paying for the triple lock. Happy Christmas!).

(that means, incidentally, that young people with high nursery bills and insane accommodation costs are also paying for the triple lock. Happy Christmas!).

I do think that regional taxes might be helpful here to take account of regional living costs.

Oh really! 🙄
not anyone I know!

So you'd support a wealth tax, so the people with the most assets contribute more rather than middle earners with jobs?

Agree,! This is what it should be for. A bridge between jobs

The wealthy get wealthy through earnings. Almost all billionaires and millionaires in the UK are self made. It’s double taxation to tax savings and houses which have been purchased using taxed income.

I am in that position. I built a business from scratch and sold it after 20 years. Earning nothing much from the first few years. Then for the next few my taxed earnings paid for childcare. Paid 40% tax in the last 10. Sold, paid capital gains tax on that. Almost all my ‘assets’ or ‘wealth’ as labour like to refer to it, if handed on after my death, will be subject to 40% IHT.

I’m guessing this is a similar picture to others in my situation- in our early 60s - we need our so called ‘wealth’ to see us through retirement and not be a burden on the state - including paying for our own care needs in later life. My wealth isn’t a pot of money I have been gifted - sitting there for labour to dip into at every budget - but apparently it is. To be brutally honest - I wouldn’t mind so much if the spending of it was well thought through and going to the right places. But ultimately, when I die, a large proportion of my ‘wealth’ will have been taxed at around 80% - 40% income tax and then 40% IHT including what’s left of my pension pot. That’s a huge amount of tax I will have contributed through my lifetime - and even having done so - I still feel that Labour (and the Green Party leader) really really dislike you for having built a business, employed people and gained some of what they refer to as ‘wealth’.

Op, I have no skin in the game as I don't have children and I'm a low earner, and I absolutely agree with this. It's absolutely bloody ridiculous and so unfair.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jan/nursery-sector-risks-being-damaged-large-corporate-takeovers

the key workers are receiving NMW and the parents are being screwed by high prices, this is when profit becomes a dirty word

When you have private equity firms profiting out of children in care - it becomes a dirty word. I don't think social services children services should ever be outsourced to private companies.

When you have 5 care homes in Lancashire being closed and the Cllr making this decision runs private care homes, profit becomes a dirty word

Profit should be honest and fair, but so often now it clearly isn't either

I’m not sure I understand your point?

Plus where is the money to fund state nurseries to come from?

Oh I know - we’ll ask higher earners to pay for it - weigh down those shoulders even more.

This

our DS say similar- they are fortunate to be high earners, but say they feel services are collapsing, can’t see any improvement.
i worked where I saw many people with larger families on benefits long term earning more than those choosing to work/ work more hours.
There needs to be an incentive to work and progress .

Hell No!

Most private businesses aren’t owned by private equity. Most private businesses aren’t in childcare. Most businesses are run well with loyal employees.

Dh lost his job last year. He was treated with contempt at the job centre. Someone with blue hair and a pride lanyard curled their lip at him and made sneery comments. Dh said he was seeing headhunters and they mimicked, “Ooh headhunters “. Dh was quite upset. They should have shaken his hand and thanked him for 35 years of tax paying!

Well the irony of that is, it actually is continually being suggested we increase taxes on those living in HCOL areas via council tax, because housing is more expensive.

And we are likely to see that increase today in the budget.

So the London parent with their HCOL and exclusion from childcare help etc will also see their tiny property which would be band B or C elsewhere in the UK, an F or G in London and so potentially eligible for a ‘mansion tax’ premium / value being over a million quid just due to location.

Immigration can provide the labour we need. Parents need to stop insisting they are doing is all some selfless favour. There are plenty of humans on earth and no shortage in sight.

How many people do you think earn that? And why are you entitled to their money? What do you think happens to those jobs if you keep taxing them? I'll tell you - their company relocates the division to NYC and you get zero of that income.

Not immune at all. Tax rises are expected IMO, we should all shoulder the pain of it. The narrative of the Chancellor being the Sheriff of Nottingham/ Boogeyman is tiresome when there is no other way out. Trying to balance a budget and keeping everyone happy is an impossible task.

that wasn't the point - it was about profit becoming a dirty word. When you use children to make profit, it becomes a dirty word imo

https://www.bigissue.com/news/politics/baroness-lola-young-children-care-privatisation/

using vulnerable children and tax payers money to do so, £15000 a week for one child in a children's home is excessive profit

@Beddiem Absolutely this, always tell people that this is the issue. As it is currently in the UK, the unemployment benefits system is below par resulting in people 'having to' go for benefits and/or disability applications. Then they get sucked in and get stuck there forever - such a waste.

Also, the tax burden for average earners is much, much, much lower here than it is in most other European countries. We can't expect a welfare state with good public services without us ALL paying a bit more tax. A bit more tax from the many would be much more efficient than the smorgasbord of taxes proposed or just wanting to tax the top 1%/5%. But Labour know this would mean a loss of voters.

I almost wish that the budget and taxation was taken out of the political cycles and was a cross-party department with more continuity. Same with Education and Health.

DH earned well over £100k when our children were small. I was a SAHM because I didn't have a career to preserve at that point and I'd have been working to pay for childcare. I certainly never felt poor or punished at that time.

Paying tax is not being “punished”.