Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

We should not even discuss the tiny number of people on that salary. In part because they are leaving in droves and if you have that earning potential you probably can afford to leave this economy mess behind easily. Do you know how many people earn that in the UK by PAYE?

Funny you choose City workers but do not mention people on tv and other areas?

Lots of people in the "middle income but no benefits" group can't afford holidays at all at the moment.

I know people with hugely responsible and stressful public sector jobs who can't afford holidays.

Like I said. And others have said. A single mum with a 2-3 kids on £60k has the same net income as a single mum with the same number of kids playing the "don't work more than 16 hours in an easy job and claim UC" game

(And actually, the picture maybe worse than that as I don't have student loan repayments but many on 60k will be paying a decent chunk to student loans too (while worrying how to help their children get to university)

Remember. If Reeves survives today, she will keep coming and coming for us.

Ultimately, all of us.

Thanks for the graph

was going to say over £100k is in top 5% hardly “middle” hardly “punishment”

and that’s just one wage in @Eucalyptus321 family

if the second wage covers childcare then they are still in top 4%

but still want more?

It's not about begrudging people? It's simply about fairness and incentives. I'm not saying people shouldn't have nice things.

If I had known then, yes I would have made different choices.

It's a bit like the fable of the ant and the grasshopper, where the ant works hard all summer and then has supplies for the winter - but in this version the ant finds out it's actually all going to be split up anyway, and the grasshopper might actually end up better off.

Like the Terminator? 🙄
Are you a Reform voter by any chance?

That's the difference between wealth and earnings. This is why people are suggesting we tax the wealthy, see or Zack Polanski.

Isn’t everyone?

Quite.
All that hard work to find that your child will get no help with uni whereas if you'd done a little job on PT hours you'd have had much more disposable income, your child would get all sorts of help through university (including lower entry requirements) and at the end of it you'd get your care paid for rather than having to sell the house you'd paid through the nose for to pay for your care.

It's demotivating and demoralising.

This.

What you are annoyed about is the fact that these aren't universal benefits. Child benefit used to be one before they put the taper off in place. I agree with you.

If you are on 100k, you are likely paying a fair chunk of tax (so take home is nowhere near that figure for anyone thinking it sounds very high). Nobody minds paying high taxes when you see some of the benefits of that when you need it. Having children, especially young children, is a comparatively small part of your life and why shouldn't people see some of those benefits irrespective of income? People say that these people don't need it, and maybe they don't, but ordinary working people aren't the people we should be fighting against (and those on 100K are ordinary working people) and having young children and a mortgage is a huge cost. This is why people accept higher taxes in other countries, they know they will see what they need when they need it.

There will be absolute outrage if anyone ever tries to means test pensions (though nothing would surprise me), but I don't actually see why it's massively different.

Why do you feel immune to tax rises?

Because a lot of people believe in some form of society where all able adults contribute and they all benefit. When there is no benefit and fewer and fewer people contribute the system becomes untenable.

This entire thread is full of people who cannot differentiate between salary and income. Neither can they comprehend the issue of household income v’s personal salaries.

The OP is describing a situation where her husband earns a lot but their household income is modest. This makes people question why they should do “big” jobs which tend to be ones with lots of responsibility and which are usually productive. By that I mean they have a lot of value to their employers and can’t be easily replaced.

Unfortunately for them they are easy to tax. Every option to maintain the advantage of a high earning job is being eroded.

So people question why they do it. They think they would have a better life and be no worse off dropping back to earning an average salary. Then they can get some of those benefits. A trend that started in Covid and which isn’t going away.

People without children or grown up children pay taxes to fund other’s free childcare, is that fair? The way I see it is it’s not up to others to fund other people’s childcare, but we just have to suck it up.

I'm not a reform voter. I am very left leaning but a floating voter. But I believe in benefits as a safety net not a lifestyle choice.

And I am also utterly ground down after 15 plus years of below inflation pay rises in the public sector. I work hard to serve the public (despite a chronic health condition /disability) but even after several promotions my lifestyle is worse than it was 15 years ago.

I think Labour have forgotten that some of their core voters work in the public sector and constant below inflation pay rises and destroying that good will. Both at the ballot box and in motivation to stay /work hard to serve the public

We've become a country that despises ambition.

Exactly anyone earning 50k plus (and certainly 100k plus) likely works long hours with a lot of stress.

So you are actually better off with him earning over £100k than someone earning less but getting childcare help?

Another note on the "free" childcare cut off... it seems to have increased nursery fees outside the "free" hours since the crackdown on top up fees.

They need State funded nurseries instead of it being a private profit making business.

Well quite

I pay a lot of tax (so does DH) but it’s never enough for some on MN.

But you see that’s everything that’s wrong with our welfare state. You’ve paid in. In many European countries you’d have 80% of your previous salary in benefits for at least 6 months post redundancy. Far longer in some countries. Something you could actually live on while you find another job. Something meaningful to repay you your previous tax payments. But our welfare system is so dire you’re treated the same as those who have contributed nothing! Well done for getting a new job. Best of luck with it.

YANBU. My husband was made redundant in September from his job with a salary of £105k because he was earning that we were not entitled to anything - no child benefit, nothing. He has since had to jump through hoops to get any type of benefit despite paying into the system. Thankfully he has secured a new role from January but middle earners absolutely are penalised.

of course the middle will be squeezed tight, the lower earners have no more to give and goodness if they tax the rich they'll squeal louder

Profit isn’t a dirty word.

It pays owners of businesses.
It funds investment and growth
It pays the dividends funding people’s pension investments.

But people without children or older children will need a new generation of teachers, nurses, doctors, builders etc and a generation to pay in to your pension (because it isn't the money that you pay in yourself)

Somebody has to have children and it is becoming increasingly less attractive for many. Those with grown up children likely received child benefit and those without children still need the services that the next generation provides.