Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Childcare is infrastructure. Everyone benefits. That's how you're going to get a pension, have someone to look after you in your care home, staff the supermarket and run our power infrastructure. Free childcare pays for itself in benefits to the economy and increased tax take.

The reason successive governments have not invested in childcare is because of entrenched sexism that thinks women should provide care, which benefits everyone, for free. In WW2, when women were needed to work, free childcare happened PDQ.

It sounds like OP is right of the thick of it in terms of child care costs. I remember there was a 5 year period where my wage (although we pooled earnings) was just being spent on nursery fees. It paid off later by staying in the workforce but at the time I felt pissed off.

I know that this won't be popular but I feel middle earners in uk (c. £50k) don't pay enough tax.
In the UK this bracket pays around 21% tax in Germany, France, Italy it's more like 35% tax. Transport is better & cheaper, childcare cheaper, infrastructure better, healthcare has better outcomes. Middle earners should pay tax IMO

I suppose we are high earners and by MN standards should be swimming in cash.

I earn just shy of £50k and DH earns around £75k but fuck me, it doesn't go far these days especially in the SE where we are. We have a comfortable life, but we're not holidaying and swanning around in Range Rovers.

That said, I am happy to pay more tax if I felt it was going somewhere and making a difference. I want better social services provision, higher wages for teachers, more money for schools, better funded public transport, cheaper train travel, cheaper utilities, more police officers, and better street cleaning. All I see is services being cut and cut some more, even as we middle/high-ish earners are told to pay more and more tax.

They have a lifetime housing tenancy and one of their children goes to private school with a full bursary. They will also get priority at university due to being on UC therefore financially disadvantaged. Her parents own property through Right to Buy. And care is subsidised if people can't afford it...

Neither work but you can still claim 85% back on UC - if you are working it's free

People have lost sight of what a middle earner is and a lot of what has been mentioned on here are above average. There are people on far less than who are also being shafted.

In the meantime a lot of people are playing the system in going back to their professional job part time and claiming UC which opens up the door to a load of other benefits. Not only do they have a decent level of income, but they also have the luxury of time with their children.

I take your point about tax, but if £90k x 2 is middle income, what would you say is a high income? And how do you think people on less than a quarter of just one of your incomes get by?

It’s totally rubbish and should be calculated on household income not individual. Very unfair and makes me too angry if I think about it too much!

Depends very much on where you live.

So do they have disabilities or carer for a disabled child because otherwise you won't get it if not working. If they are carers they obviously deserve some childcare.

No disabilities, just UC. You don't get it free upfront but you can claim 85% back

This eloquent post should be the message printed millions of times every time this comes up. The whole system relies on people being distracted and doing the kind of bickering on this thread about whether £50k or £80k or £100k makes you rich. Stop fighting amongst yourselves and look at the big picture. The £100k people aren't who can sustain this tax burden.....

This is very true. The leg up in life comes from being on benefits now.

I’m sick of it. I believe in a strong welfare system but ours is a joke now. It’s not welfare, it’s freebies and handouts.

This thread just goes to show that you cannot tell what a high income is or a low income is until you have subtracted tax, housing costs and childcare costs and added in any benefits. £100k in the Welsh valleys is a vast sum. £100k in London is not. And yet they’re taxed the same.

Someone in a household where one adult earns over 100k is not hard up in any part of the uk. Get some perspective. You aren’t a middle earner

No, I’m sorry its not hypocritical because the situations aren’t actually the same. The higher earner isn’t reducing their hours to keep benefits, they’re already earning at their full capacity. The lower earner, however, is choosing to work fewer hours even though they could work more, and the system is designed to help people increase their hours and income if they can. So the criticism isn’t about who earns more, but about whether someone is deliberately limiting their work when they are capable of doing more.

OP Its scary isn’t it and you’re right that those who aren’t in this situation won’t understand. You can tell from the replies. It’s a not a competition but those on a lower salary will feel this way.

I think for me it’s that sometimes it feels pointless to work so many hours and get taxed to the hilt, get no support for doing so, and having to then fund everyone else.

I know people (and I think I saw this mentioned) who deliberately work less hours so they can top up with UC. If they work more then that gets cut. This also means they need less childcare.

middle earners are not rolling in it when you take all this into account. It’s the unfairness of it.

not trying to get out of paying for tax - but where’s the support to to keep working??

Well there's always the option to work for minimum wage at a factory, live in social housing and claim all the benefits, but you won't because you know that your current situation is better for your family. In the short term, this decision costs you more in tax and childcare but in the long term you will forever have the advantage of owning your own home, having savings and access to credit, and having a nest egg for retirement.

Thats good to know.

I didn't choose to have a third. We didn't plan anymore children but I fell pregnant on contraception and found out late on.

I didnt say we were on UC. We both also work, pay taxes and own a home. I am entitled to an opinion regardless of how many children I have and my opinion is there needs to be an incentive to work and increase earnings. If middle class people are taxed to the point they have are worse off financially than lower earning people then people stop pushing themselves to succeed. If someone chooses to have 3, 4 or 5 plus children they cannot expect an endless supply of money.

That is incorrect. Both have to work to claim the 85% if in a couple or single. You simply don't the UC childcare if you don't work. They either have a disability element or caring you have mixed it up with something else.

You said you didn't get anything for the third so that is why I said you were on UC which is a easy thing to presume.

You might want to check because I wonder if you haven't claim CB because you think only two get it.

Middle earner surely by definition means the median? Which is about 35-40k recently if I remember. These are the people truly being shafted, a sniff above minimum wage and usually in high stress demanding key roles like education, police etc. How can you expect a nurse to do their best looking after you when he or she is barely able to afford.to get by? This country is an actual joke.

You’re allowed to be pissed off Op. I’m in the same boat, working my nuts off to be at zero at the end of each month yet on paper we should be great.

But you won’t get an objective argument here. All the “I earn 20k and I’m mortgage free simply by being sensible” bullshit when someone inherited a house up north 30 years.

H and I are based in SE, earn collectively 150k ish, small house (absolutely fucked on mortgage rates) childcare, food alone each week making me want to cry. Council tax £300 each month and I can’t even get a GP appointment.

We’ve been working so hard when the kids were small to give them a better life and I think now what was the point? We grew up with nothing as children and wanted better for our own, but I should have sacked it off, worked PT or not at all to be in essentially the same position as I am now.

It’s called wrap around care. Childcare doesn’t stop at 4 when they go to school

So those paying for everyone are disincentivised and moving abroad, and those being paid for are disincentivised from working at all.

And why exactly can't the government see this and fix the system?

Universal benefits ensuring everyone has a minimum level of income and there is always an incentive to work.