Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Because the average cost of full time nursery in London is £2k a month. If you were paying that for 2 kids (like OP) and £1.7k mortgage you wouldn’t be coping.

Totally agree OP. I work hard to make a decent income but there’s barely anything left at the end of the month. We haven’t been on holiday in years because we can’t afford to save for one. Now it feels that the situation is about to get even worse. You do start to think, what’s the point?

I was paying more than that, it was £2,300 initially, then decreased to £2,150 I think or maybe £2,050, when room sizes became bigger in the pre-school room. I also sent packup as it was cheaper than paying the meal fee.

I genuinely think I’d be better off on that arrangement than I am now.

How does she get 85% for childcare if she doesn't work? Unless she is a carer both parents have to be working to be eligible.

Have you got a source for that average?

And if so.. how do ordinary people afford childcare, seeing that the "30 hours" is equivalent to around 2 days childcare?

So you were spending £4,600 on nursery and £1.7k on mortgage on £103k salary. Your numbers don’t add up. Or you didn’t have 2 kids at nursery at the same time, like OP is facing and you therefore weren’t in the same situation and therefore when you say ‘I coped fine’ you are really saying ‘I coped fine with a totally different situation’.

Which is why the likes of OP find comments like yours so patronising. It’s like casually omitting having a trust fund to rely on.

I think people are imagining that £100k means the same thing today as it did 30 years ago.

I understand what OP is saying and I think she's right. I don't earn anything as a carer for my disabled child. DH has a well paid job (but not close to £100k). We are struggling. If he earned £100k we certainly wouldn't be living the champagne lifestyle. We'd still be making tough decisions and we wouldn't feel rich.

It's very, very convenient for the elite class who make millions and billions every year off the back of all of our hard work, to have all of us normal people fighting among ourselves instead of pointing the finger upwards. If you have a household income of £150k you have vastly more in common with someone earning minimum wage than you do with your local multi-millionaire or with the billionaires that actually control our economy. But we don't exercise the power in our numbers because we are too busy in-fighting.

You aren't a middle earner. Get a grip.

@DreamTheMoors

can be either. Some people have ‘touring’ caravans which they own and will then drive on holiday in Europe / UK on caravan sites.

there are also ‘holiday parks’ which are large sites of static caravans that people book for holidays. Some are owned by the site owners, some are owned by individuals who will often let them out for the weeks in the year they are not using them.

the latter are seen as a cheap holiday - newspapers used to run £10pp holidays in off peak times where you could get a break in a caravan park for about £80 for 4 - you had to pay extra for entertainment passes etc over the £10pp.

they can be expensive though if you go to a popular park in peak times.

Apparently the budget is going to cost the average earner 2k to fund increases in welfare payments. I’m furious to be honest. Surely the welfare bill needs cutting. Not spiralling even more?

then the increase in nmw is going to cause a combination of job losses but also potentially affect inflation as everyone will be demanding pay rises to keep ahead of nmw and then people have more money so prices just rise. But I won’t get one as my sector is struggling so much the largest pay rise I’ve had in the last six years has been 1% and often nothing.

supermarkets are warning due to change in business rates that food prices are going to go up.

I could cry. I earn just under 50k a year and spent the last few days desperately waiting for payday with 92p in my bank account.

They’re not coping either. It’s appalling. But it doesn’t mean that OP hasn’t got a valid point that £100k in London with 2 kids in nursery is a joke.

I’ve already said I was spending £2,300 on nursery, not being financially irresponsible isn’t patronising. Oh yes, as a care leaver I clearly had a huge trust fund 🙄

I am not a middle class a earner (i was until o had a disabled xhils) but i am quite horrified at the budget. They are being taxed to the hilt and there is no incentive to increase your earnings anymore.

I also am shocked they plan to increase benefits from 2 children to more. I have 3 kids and chose to have them. We get nothing for our 3rd child so we make things stretch or I work extra hours. DH is full time and I am part time. I can see the logic if they said we are increasing this for those that are in work so they have an additional incentive to work but other than that if people choose to have multiple kids they need to fund it.

If you’re the one earning £25,000 you must be part time if you’re a teacher, so how are your nursery fees so high? Wouldn’t you be better off not working at all?

But you come on and say ‘I coped so you can’ omitting to mention you coped on 2/3rd of OP’s expenses.

The OP has a higher household income than I did, which accounts for the difference.

Yeah that’s progressive. Women being forced to make a choice of career or family. It’s justified though because it’s ok to punish higher earners. England can’t afford to lose anymore teachers. How very progressive, I mean left.

Those out of work won't benefit much from the lifting of the cap because I presume the benefit cap will remain.

I also think you can't judge them if you choose to have a third whilst on UC.

Also the OP states they pay £2,000 per month in nursery fees, so less than me on a higher household income. So I’m not sure why my lower household income and higher nursery fees mean 2/3 of OPs expenses to you.

Low earners on UC won't be better off either as they will increase the AET and the amount of hours needed to work so no benefit will be felt for the increase in UC.

Hard agree OP. I know most people work hard so I hate the ‘I work hard for my money’ argument. But I have worked my way up in a relatively low paid field (NHS nurse)- I’ve done so many extra qualifications and training to get there and do work so hard every day. DH also works in a professional career and has worked hard for promotion. Neither of us earn over £100k but joint income is around £125k so I’d consider us middle earners.
At 25 if you’d told me this salary I’d be anticipating holidays in far flung locations and designer clothes. Instead we can make modest savings and live a very normal, frugal life. Nothing wrong with this but I’ve reached my career ceiling and DH isn’t far off. What the point in doing all this to hand so much tax over? I work with a number of women committing benefit fraud (mainly claiming as a single mum when their partner actually lives with them) and they bring in a similar monthly amount with the UC that we get despite working part time and much lower paid. It’s depressing.

I understand OP. DH and I earn around £43k each, I'd say we are middle/ average earners with a household income of nearly £90k. However we are both basic rate tax payers and receive child benefit. We are thankfully past the expensive childcare years.

Our mortgage repayment is pretty low at £500pm (we have been paying a mortgage for 20yrs and didn't move up the housing ladder ladder to our max affordability) the mortgage is 10% of our £5k pm take home income.

We feel quite comfortable as in a sweet spot of lower tax rate, low outgoings. I know it's tougher with another couple with the same household income as us but say one earning £70k and another earning £20k, they are would take home less with no child benefit and 1 higher rate tax payer.

Childcare is a brutal expense that most families incur for a prolonged period, or lose a wage. I imagine that it's more expensive than when we paid it 10yrs ago.

Message to young people then: don't bother working hard at school or getting a degree and building a career. Just have a few kids, as many as you like, don't worry, someone else will pay for it all.

Yes, you continue to receive some CB on your pay after pension up to 80k. So this poster needs to be claiming CB.