BIL is destroying his family

[GreenJazz]

I don't really know where to post this, but my husband and I need some direction or advice (and I need to rant!).

My husband's brother has been out of work for a decade and has been bankrolled by his parents since then. He is the kind of man who refuses to claim benefits and most jobs are 'beneath him'. He is unpleasant, rude, entitled and often treats his parents (especially his mum) dreadfully.

Now, due to selling the family business my in-laws were fairly well off (private schools for the children, early retirement, nice house, skiing holidays etc) but in recent years, they've become very anxious about money.

Around 3 years ago, he came to them and said he was in 70k of debt and needed help paying it off. We found out that they had to get equity release on their house to cover his debts.

In the last few days, it's come to light that they've given him another 140k (again from the equity in their home), so he has racked up 210k of debt in about 3/4 years. This is in addition to them giving him a sizeable amount to help him buy a flat, and a very generous inheritance from his grandparents (incidentally, a lot more than my husband's, due to the stock market at the time). They have taken him on holiday regularly in the past and paid for everything, whereas my husband hasn't been invited (at least as long as I've known him so over 11 years). Overall, he must've had over 500k since becoming an adult (he's now 40) and he has almost nothing to show for it. We don't know exactly where the money has gone, but he travels a lot and we think there's gambling involved too.

As you can imagine, my husband has been very hurt by this. All of his life he has had to put up with his brother demanding everything from his parents, his rude, entitled attitude and now the financial and emotional abuse of his parents. His brother has threatened to kill himself on a number of occasions in an effort to get his parents to lend him money, and promises to change etc but obviously, this doesn't happen. He says the world doesn't understand him etc etc but it's very difficult to feel much sympathy for someone so unbelievably difficult.

Of course, we understand that it is his parents' money and they can do with it what they like, but is there any way of protecting them from giving him more money? They're clearly terrified of him hurting himself, and my FIL confided to my husband recently that he only has about 3 years of his pension left because of this (he's currently 78 and in good physical health, apart from his very bad anxiety). I feel this behaviour is coercive and we want to try and help them as best we can.

For context, my BIL lives alone (no partner we know of) and has no children. My husband and I live in the south-east with 3 children. He has a good job and I also work part-time while my youngest is not yet school-age, and while we're comfortable enough, we do need to budget every month and have a lot of repairs to do on our house that will be difficult to find money for.

My husband has been very philosophical about the whole situation (he has grown up with being left out of holidays, outings etc), but even he has found it difficult not to be bitter and is so worried about his parents.

I am absolutely raging. I'm constantly battling between wanting to help his parents (as they feel completely stuck) and wanting to scream at them for being so bloody stupid. I'm so upset that my husband is being treated this way by his family for doing everything right. I can't understand not treating your children equally in terms of money. His parents have always been very good to me and are lovely people, but this obvious favouritism makes me so angry.

He has had to come to the realisation that he won't be inheriting anything from his parents, and while we know that inheritance isn't a right, when your parents have had a very luxurious life, and given your brother half a million, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a little to come your way.

Does anyone have any practical advice for this difficult situation or do we have to accept my in-laws are ruined?

This, added with the message also said 'more in sorrow than anger'

A person close to me has lost their house to equity release, done unknown to them by their late spouse (with early dementia) who gave the funds to 1 of their 4 offspring to pay off debts. They and the rest of their family found out when the letter came from the ER firm saying they owned the house. Now elderly they are unable to move anywhere more suitable and the remaing family are supporting.
OP, you at least have time to warn them

If BIL may be gambling his elderly parents’ funds away, there’s an NHS service for codependents of addicts which they could try self referral to. This might help them see they’re not actually helping him, and has the added bonus of links to safeguarding processes etc. https://www.northerngamblingservice.nhs.uk/i-am-an-affected-family-member/referral/

And if either of them ever needs a care home, or an essential visiting carer, the council will probably refuse to fund this unless they can somehow find a way to ‘prove’ coercion. Which they would probably need to magic up non existent funds to pay a solicitor for. https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

I have a similar situation with my dsis and my dm is elderly now nothing you can do but accept it. I have tried opg dm was deemed as having capacity at the time she made those decisions I have tried ss as dsis has manipulated and isolated dm from me and my family I even had to get ss involved as I had no idea where she was even living dsis has excluded us and made it very difficult for me to maintain a relationship with dm. Ss weren’t interested either

Family members are senior barristers - they always say put stuff in writing, so you know EXACTLY where your thinking /planned action is!

I'd be tempted to write a letter /WhatsApp to everyone.... :

Saying you're sorry it's all got so muddled.

That you've been good son /dil

That the spoilt son for whatever reason has received 500k so far ...over the last x years... I'd even detail the larger amounts... Eg 80k debt - paid by parents x month/year etc etc

This is clearly iniquitous and presumably not what they intended. It's just been bil interesting wya of budgeting.

Youre concerned that parents will run out of money as they have little pension left.

That you live in South East with young family and have received nothing.

Which has impacted on your ability to save...

You will sadly be in no position to help them financially as they age...

And none of you want the parents bankrupt.

The no one can be in any doubt.

They’re not interested as there is no legal framework for them to stop your mum doing what she wants with her money.

Your on a well trod path here, if the parents have capacity they can spaff money anyway they like. All you can do is make it clear your can’t help or you’ll be dragged down with them.

My dad tried to stop his mother bankrolling his sister, it ended with my dad being cut out of the family and his sister getting everything 🤷🏻‍♀️ and his solicitor earned well out of it. We don’t even know if his mum is dead but dad’s 88 so probably not.

It'll only be your job (or your DH's) if you accept it. Don't. Why would you, for people who have acted so stupidly and treated you so unfairly?

Will you be seeing PIL over Christmas? Do you ever see them when BIL isn’t present? Are they close to your kids, good grandparents who show love?

I ask these questions in the hope you might have an opportunity to chat honestly with them, explain how it’s affected your DH’s relationship with the,, how you are concerned how they will cope when the money runs out because you need to prioritise your DCs, how you don’t see how your BIL will cope when he is told ‘there’s no more money’.

@Fiftyandmei understand that there is awful lot more to my situation involving financial abuse that I haven’t included so not to derail the thread

I answered the op question that given my experience having been going round in circles with opg ss and police none of them take responsibility and pass the buck to each other that i personally found it better for my mental health to move on and accept the situation despite it being incredibly hurtful and unfair

OP, show your in-laws this thread. So much succinct advice, it might change their mindset and it is a mindset. BIL will be ok, in this country, there is always work and he ought to work to pay tax and get NI so that he gets a state pension eventually. If all else fails the State will provide, as unfair as that is. I have been through this myself and I managed to save my mother from a parasitic person that would have eaten up everything and then turn to me as the next victim, fortunately my mother cooperated and with great relief the relative is now someone else’s problem as he didn’t learn but found a new victim.

I can see there’s coercive control going on - I have the T-shirt and the hat and a small warehouse of souvenirs.

But, it’s not about ‘passing the buck’ - there is literally no legal framework that exists to allow SS to step in to safeguard. Thd adult has to be classed as ‘vulnerable’ and it’s a narrow definition.

Thd police - it’s incredibly difficult to prove coercive control and requires the victim to participate in the investigation.

Ifs endlessly awful and exhausting having an abusive person in your life - but it requires the victim to be willing to drop the rope (unless they lack capacity)

Sorry you’re having to deal with this - I do get how frustrating and harmful it is.

Hm I’m in a similar position with one of my siblings and I would be pretty unsettled to see my SIL writing something like this. It reads to me that you are upset that you haven’t got your hands on their money while BIL has. IMO how they spend their money is very little to do with you.

They might feel responsible in some way for his failure to launch and don’t want to see him struggle. FWIW it probably makes your DH the favourite because he’s able to stand on his own two feet.

If they are sensible, they will have a plan in place to supplement their retirement. If not, that isn’t really your concern either!

Short of asking our PILs to put all their assets and money in a trust which your DH and one parent control, I don’t think there’s anything you can do - other than accept that your PILs are weak, derelict in their duties to both of their sons, irresponsible in not planning for their future.

Allowing this to go on isn’t them being nice or overly loving: it’s enabling, irresponsible, immature, cruel. They need to get a grip and tackle this situation head on. Which they won’t, because if they wanted to they would have done so already. So all you can do is walk away and protect yourselves. Your DH won’t, but you can. And, no elder care from you. None.

I disagree, I think she comes across as concerned they’ll have enough for their needs.

You can do one thing which is really, really positive. Stop the rot.

Tell PIL you can’t support them in old age.

It won’t be easy. They’re used to shitting on you. BIL will be outraged.

It’s still the right thing to do for them and you. You speaking up, gently and with no drama, is the only chance they’ve got to rein it in with BIL.

State care isn’t so bad if they don’t. Be prepared for emotional blackmail, it’s a family skill. Don’t back down, no matter what. State care isn’t that bad - rinse and repeat.

Oh, and PIL are not that fond of you or your family.

No matter what they say when they realise they backed the wrong horse.

If he’s exploring them financially and emotionally blackmailing then you could seek advice from local authority adult safeguarding?

OP you would be the bad guy whatever you do anyway, so you may as well say ‘no not my problem’ at the start. This way you will not become a victim of ‘no good deed goes unpunished’. I found in my situation that I was expected to fall in to line, and pay for the feckless lifestyle of the relative once they reached crisis point and when I didn’t, I was emotionally blackmailed and the suicidal talk came out as their last resort. The thing is, I didn’t care, so they had no leverage. This was genuinely a shock to them, they think they are important. I told him to get a job and I would help somewhat up til then - he point blank refused to get a job, as he ‘thought he wouldn’t be able to get one’. Didn’t try.

Your dh has to back you, if he doesn’t then you’ve got a real problem as your finances are merged and he is effectively funnelling away from the family unit.

Ignore the people who say you weren’t entitled to an inheritance. If you are not fine but the bil is not either then, but he got it didn’t he. In fact you have dc and are entitled to it more, as inheritance is a family legacy for most, the way I see it bil is actually entitled to less as he is just one person with no dc? plus he uses it for wasteful purposes.

but isnt that favouritism? Not holding him to the same standards? Treating the more capable one less favourably? Whatever the reason, it is deeply unfair. I have seen it in my own family and it is really toxic.

Where will the parents go once they’ve lost their house?

Sounds like the inheritance is already gone tbh.
God help the survivor of the pair should they need a care home, there will be precious little equity left because if they aren’t paying the interest of the equity release then the whole house will likely go to the ER company.
I wonder if the useless grifter Son realises this?

Aside from the inheritance aspect this is quite alarming to hear about.
It sounds like coercive control and financial abuse which is a form of domestic abuse. Have a look at this info: https://survivingeconomicabuse.org/what-is-economic-abuse/

https://www.independentage.org/get-advice/money/stopping-financial-abuse

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health-wellbeing/relationships-family/protection-from-abuse/financial-abuse/

Contact age concern for advice on what to do. But be clear that this is about your parents IL being extorted financially (not about inheritance concerns).

Best of luck !

I agree with this.

You can’t stop your PILs bankrupting themselves for their son but you can tell them categorically - and I’d put it in writing - that you can’t support them or BIL when the money runs out.

So when they have died BIL will absolutely be on his own.

Their kindest thing would be to make him become independent now but since that doesn’t sound like it’ll happen, you just need to state the consequences.

You need to make sure your husband is onboard with this though.

You owe it to your kids.

I am frightened for your PILs safety though.

It's hard to feel sorry for them tbh.

A lot of us don't get an inheritance, that's not the issue.

They might not be able to support themselves for as long as necessary because they have chosen to literally give money away.

If this has been going on for about 20yrs, is it elder abuse?