BIL is destroying his family

[GreenJazz]

I don't really know where to post this, but my husband and I need some direction or advice (and I need to rant!).

My husband's brother has been out of work for a decade and has been bankrolled by his parents since then. He is the kind of man who refuses to claim benefits and most jobs are 'beneath him'. He is unpleasant, rude, entitled and often treats his parents (especially his mum) dreadfully.

Now, due to selling the family business my in-laws were fairly well off (private schools for the children, early retirement, nice house, skiing holidays etc) but in recent years, they've become very anxious about money.

Around 3 years ago, he came to them and said he was in 70k of debt and needed help paying it off. We found out that they had to get equity release on their house to cover his debts.

In the last few days, it's come to light that they've given him another 140k (again from the equity in their home), so he has racked up 210k of debt in about 3/4 years. This is in addition to them giving him a sizeable amount to help him buy a flat, and a very generous inheritance from his grandparents (incidentally, a lot more than my husband's, due to the stock market at the time). They have taken him on holiday regularly in the past and paid for everything, whereas my husband hasn't been invited (at least as long as I've known him so over 11 years). Overall, he must've had over 500k since becoming an adult (he's now 40) and he has almost nothing to show for it. We don't know exactly where the money has gone, but he travels a lot and we think there's gambling involved too.

As you can imagine, my husband has been very hurt by this. All of his life he has had to put up with his brother demanding everything from his parents, his rude, entitled attitude and now the financial and emotional abuse of his parents. His brother has threatened to kill himself on a number of occasions in an effort to get his parents to lend him money, and promises to change etc but obviously, this doesn't happen. He says the world doesn't understand him etc etc but it's very difficult to feel much sympathy for someone so unbelievably difficult.

Of course, we understand that it is his parents' money and they can do with it what they like, but is there any way of protecting them from giving him more money? They're clearly terrified of him hurting himself, and my FIL confided to my husband recently that he only has about 3 years of his pension left because of this (he's currently 78 and in good physical health, apart from his very bad anxiety). I feel this behaviour is coercive and we want to try and help them as best we can.

For context, my BIL lives alone (no partner we know of) and has no children. My husband and I live in the south-east with 3 children. He has a good job and I also work part-time while my youngest is not yet school-age, and while we're comfortable enough, we do need to budget every month and have a lot of repairs to do on our house that will be difficult to find money for.

My husband has been very philosophical about the whole situation (he has grown up with being left out of holidays, outings etc), but even he has found it difficult not to be bitter and is so worried about his parents.

I am absolutely raging. I'm constantly battling between wanting to help his parents (as they feel completely stuck) and wanting to scream at them for being so bloody stupid. I'm so upset that my husband is being treated this way by his family for doing everything right. I can't understand not treating your children equally in terms of money. His parents have always been very good to me and are lovely people, but this obvious favouritism makes me so angry.

He has had to come to the realisation that he won't be inheriting anything from his parents, and while we know that inheritance isn't a right, when your parents have had a very luxurious life, and given your brother half a million, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a little to come your way.

Does anyone have any practical advice for this difficult situation or do we have to accept my in-laws are ruined?

Yes, this.

I think you should spell out to your PIL what is happening and where it will lead to. I would make it clear that you will try to help them to say no to BIL if that's what they want. But they will get no financial/housing help from you when all the money is gone, because they are choosing to bankrupt themselves and you have got enough to do supporting yourselves and your kids.

Obviously it's massively unfair that they are giving everything to BIL and nothing to your DH. But you can do nothing about their choices. You can only spell out what your own choices will be.

His parents may think they can live in their home until they die under the equity release scheme and on their state pensions.

Be clear that you will not supplement them when they are out of money. Speak up now.

Why doesn’t your bil work? Has he never worked?

Think it's all the parents fault. They are grown ups with the power to say no and common sense to know it's wrong. Think your husband needs to ask them what they plan to do when their pension pot empties? Are they going to rely on state pension? It's doable but will be a massive shock to them. Are they expecting your husband to help? I would not help as they'd only funnel some to bil.

This is possible, I don't know much about them to be honest.

He did have work as a contractor for a while, but had an argument with his boss, he quit and hasn't worked since. I think an issue was he got paid quite well and so anything else would've been a step down which his pride didn't allow him to do. He's been on loads of training courses (paid for by parents) in an attempt to help him get working, but so far hasn't helped. He's been out of work for ao long now, I'd be surprised if anywhere would take him.

You need to take control of this narrative, and completely disabuse them of any expectation of you and DH bailing them out.

My suggestion would be that you and DH sit down with his parents and you both, together, make it perfectly clear that your priority is your children, and that you BOTH will do absolutely nothing to bail them out financially or domestically. You will not give them money, you will not house them should their abusive son rob them of their last penny. You MUST emphasize to them that they are completely on their own here. They need to have that information NOW, because otherwise they will keep going as they are. Knowing - and I do mean KNOWING - that you and your husband are not going to be their safety net is the only incentive they would have to protect themselves.

"They're clearly terrified of him hurting himself, and my FIL confided to my husband recently that he only has about 3 years of his pension left because of this (he's currently 78 and in good physical health, apart from his very bad anxiety). I feel this behaviour is coercive and we want to try and help them as best we can."
Why do you think FIL confided this to your husband? My reading is that FIL is lining you and DH up as the safety net. Do not let him! Make it clear that you will be no such thing, and that you will not allow them to rob their grandchildren - because that would be the effect of you being any sort of bail-out. They would be asking you to divert your resources from your children to them, and you do not find that acceptable at all. Keep hammering that point - your responsibility is your children, not them.

And if need be, I would point out to them that this is a problem of their own making, and they started making it a long time ago. I'd be completely hard-faced and lay it on the line - 'you did this to yourselves and I will not allow my husband to use our money on you. You might think you can appeal to him, but I've watched your partiality to your other son for years so believe me when I say my money is for my children and not you and your wastrel son.'

You are going to have to be VERY blunt, to the point of rudeness. You have to convince them you will not be bailing them out. Only if they are convinced of that will they have the slightest chance of not handing every penny over to your BIL, from sheer instinct for self-preservation.

I think you need to take a step back. You have said your b'n'law emotionally black mails his parents / threatening self-harm if they don't fund him and they are now left with only three years of their pension left. But your main gripe is they have not given money to your hubby .... if they had of done that they would be completely broke so is that what you are asking for?

This is not about your husband's inheritance - this is about two elderly people being financially abused by their son.

I don’t think you are at all unreasonable to be frustrated by the situation or to want to look out for your parents in law, but I do think YABVU to be concerned on how it’s impacting your husband’s potential future inheritance.

I have an older sister who sounds very much like your BIL. She is in her 50s (also single, no kids) and has never once in her life fully provided for herself, but maintains a perpetual victim stance. My parents paid her entire rent for over half her life, still pay her health insurance and last year gifted her a full deposit for an apartment in a really affluent area so could live close to friends (she was too lonely in her last place apparently). She now complains the apartment is a ‘shithole’ and drops constant unsubtle hints about needing to upgrade because she’s too embarrassed to invite friends over.

They pay for all her holidays with rich pals, yoga retreats, bought her a car she wrote off within two weeks (this was just last year!) and then replaced it. She has several degrees, flits from career to career and still comes begging. Likewise, makes not-so-vague allusions to suicide if there’s any suggestion they won’t sort something for her financially.

I have two other siblings and none have us have ever had anything similar.

I can hate the situation and be disappointed in my parents for not standing up for themselves or calling her out on anything, but it is their money. If spending it in that way helps make their lives easier by alleviating some of their anxiety then that’s absolutely theirs to do - I’d rather they spent it on holidays or treating themselves but they are very grown adults (in their 80s) so they can and should make that call.

I think ‘when your parents have had a very luxurious life, and given your brother half a million, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a little to come your way’ is actually quite unreasonable. Your husband presumably had a very privileged upbringing and shouldn’t feel like any of their money is in any way ‘his’, despite not liking how they’re spending it.

Time for DH to tell BiL the money is running out.

i think you need to make clear that you can not support the in-laws and you can not support BiL. You need to focus on your family unit. They all need to understand you do not have a magic money tree.

You need to start hammering home the question ‘what happens when the money runs out?’ ask them ‘what will happen if they need to go into care?. Time to get tough - lay out your stance now, don’t just wait for the end game.

No that’s not your job.

You need to help your husband to step away from this shit-show. They have enabled this monster when they should have taken the tough approach years ago.

You and DH need to focus on your family unit.

I think the PP meant that OP’s DH will come under huge pressure to help his DP, given what his DF has said about running through his pension. DH needs to make it clear to his DP that there must be no expectation that he will be subbing his DB or housing his DP. His DP need to sort their finances out and stop giving his DB money.

It seems they don't own their house now, if I've understood the equity release thing.

So what happens if they need to go into care?

Instead of doing the wise thing and looked to securing their future they've enabled a bloodsucker who's perfectly capable of supporting himself and channelled most of it his way.

Time your husband stepped up and protected his parents from this parasite who has left them in this dire state.

Arrange a business-like conversation with them - he needs to help them cut off the supply of money before it runs out for them.

dont bail them out - finanically they wont learn and will still pass on to your BIL

Of course I don't want them to be broke, I'd much rather they have their money safe in their account so they're happy and able to be comfortable in their advancing years. Like I said before, they're kind, generous people who happen to have a very large blindspot for their son.

My husband isn't at all focused on the loss of the money, he just wants his parents to be OK, and I'm trying my best to support him, I just really dislike his brother for doing this and bullying them into this position in the first place.

Now is the time to make it very clear that you won't be doing that.

@GreenJazz

I'm so sorry you're facing this situation.

First off, you and DH need to present a united front.

The main thing is that you cannot control BiL nor can you control your iLs. The only thing you and DH can control is your reaction to them. So you can't stop BiL from asking them for money, nor can you stop them from giving it to them.

I think what you need to do is get your iLs off by themselves in a 'low key' situation in your home, say dinner or just tea and cake. Then DH, with you backing him up, need to present them with the 'facts' as you see them; that BiL is driving them to the poorhouse with his incessant demands for money. You need to explain to them that chances are if they keep up the way they are going they will end up 'destitute' (or broke, bankrupt, without funds, bones of arse, you choose the term). Then ask them what their plans are for when (not if!) that happens. Explain that DH and you (again he should be talking) are not/will never be in the financial position to give them money or to support them should that happen. And that you will not under any circumstances give money or support BiL. (At this point you can also raise the issue of them being able or not being able to move in with you if that's relevant and that BiL will NEVER be allowed to live in your home regardless of whether or not they do)

This kind of discussion falls under 'hurts me more than it does you'. But your DH needs to understand that he is doing his parents a disservice by not having a frank discussion with them. Yes, there may be 'fallout', but there may also be a chance that it's a big wake up call to them. To me, that's worth the chance.

I agree, leaving aside a situation where one adult child is severely disabled or something, parents should without fail treat all of their children equally when it comes to finances.

Op I think your husband has to initiate a frank formal discussion with his parents about how much money, or not, they have left to live on, and the value of their house and any savings or pensions etc.

Having established those figures, he then brings you in to the meeting, as you and your children will be affected, and you both make it clear that they cannot expect you to bail them out. That you don’t expect anything from them but they must stop giving any more money to your bil as you won’t be there to pick up the financial pieces.

Then having reached some resolution about this between you all, as best as possible anyway, and a future plan going forward, your dh then has to go to his brother and tell him to stop financially abusing his parents and pressuring them for money or he will be seeking legal advice. And he needs to tell him in no uncertain terms to get a job, any job, and start paying his parents back, while realising in reality that he probably won’t do this. At the very least he needs to get help for his gambolling addiction.

I would speak to my parents, tell them my concerns generally but emphasise that I am worried they are not going to survive their old age without they money they have given away. I would ask them to consider giving me financial power of attorney to ensure this financial abuse stops now. Your brother needs to be asked to start to pay back the loans.

I wonder speak to my parents, tell them my concerns generally but emphasise that I am worried they are not going to survive their old age without they money they have given away. I would ask them to consider giving me financial power of attorney to ensure this financial abuse stops now. Your brother needs to be asked to start to pay back some of the loans.

Financial abuse by fraud - possibly coercion as well. It absolutely does not matter that they have capacity. It’s emotional manipulation.

he’s a lowlife and to be honest id be inclined to ring the police and ask them to investigate if a crime is taking place and possibly adult social services and raise a safeguarding concern.

You need to speak with PIL and determine what access he’s been giving to funds bank accounts etc. they need to consider whether it’s worth putting in place power of attorney to someone that can be trusted if a time comes they do not have capacity to make appropriate decisions on their behalf.

stress to them this is not about you not loosing out - it’s about ensuring they are comfortable and protected. This is a minefield.

This was my first thought - it is absolutely not favouritism they are being emotionally and financially blackmailed by the sounds of it! It’s a sad situation, has your husband actually sat his parents down and spoke to them about it? At the end of the day you can say your peace but that’s about all you can do, if they have capacity it’s up to them. Your BIL sounds awful.

Agree!!

@GreenJazz your dh needs to make it crystal clear that he and you cannot help in Any way, and ask his parents what their plan is for when their pension runs out? then you both need to take a big step back and that means not listening to them moaning about their situation or what bils latest bit of bad behaviour is. This might give them the short sharp shock they need to take responsibility for themselves .

I would suggest asking them if they would like DH to be their power if attorney. This would at least safeguard them from financial abuse if in the future they lost capacity - that's if they have anything left by then. I would also try talking to them and raising with them your concerns from the perspective of their own financial security in the future. You can't unfortunately do anything about the unfairness of it though. They are in an abusive and coercive relationship with BIL.

I would work on the basis that there will be no inheritance for BIL or your DH and you should make your peace with that.

Your DH needs to make it crystal clear to his parents that you and your DH are in no position to help them, either financially or with care in their old age.

It sounds as though the favouring of your BIL and the sidelining of your DH began in childhood as you have said the following about your PILs' treatment of your DH:

'(he has grown up with being left out of holidays, outings etc)'

That would definitely make me harden my heart and would make it much easier to erect clear boundaries in your relationship with your PILs. I'm pretty sure that there will be a lot of emotional blackmail and I would recommend that your DH seeks some therapy to come to terms with the way that he has been treated by his parents since childhood.

There’s nothing you can do. Either your in laws will or won’t see the light.

O can understand your husband feeling resentful and hurt - your BIL sounds truly awful. But clearly, your ILs just refuse to stop being enablers and are willing to let him piss everything up the wall.

It’s a waste of your husbands resources to dwell on it.

I recommend Susan Forward’s Toxic Parents book - because it seems that his parents have pushed ‘roles’ onto their respective children.

Agree
The parents are enablers
They get a pay off for doing this.
Maybe subconsciously
I know bil threatened all sorts, but it goes deeper than that.
I had a relative bail out their eldest son twice (hp payments)
When he got himself into debt a third time (in a fairly short period of time ) they said ‘ you’re on your own’ and left him to it.