Children as guinea pigs

[Ihatetomatoes]

I know I'm not being unreasonable. Surely its unethical.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k4jg0wkj4o.amp

Somewhere in that report (which was pretty balanced btw) is the argument that giving puberty to children in this trial is comparable to giving unlicensed drugs to adults for whom no other treatment is available - the inference being that without the treatment these children will die. It's sickening.

I did a search in AIBU before posting and didn't see one.

I imagine that means that more people are concerned about this then? Where are the threads?

Being concerned rather than turning a blind eye to drug testing children with puberty blockers feels completely right.

That;s a man speaking on LBC just now.

That's very sad.

It is so difficult to get research on children through ethics committees - that's research that could potentially improve treatment for children with chronic lifelong illnesses.

So how this got through I don't know.

Use of puberty blockers is for children with measured precocious puberty - and it is acknowledged that this has to be done carefully to delay puberty for a short while only.

What is the physical benefit for the child? How will this help their physical body?

Are they basically going to say that because it makes the child happy (measured only 1 year after intervention with the question 'how happy are you now 1-10') and ignore any physical damage that will happen much later on.

The power of cosmetic surgery and pharmaceutical companies disgust me - they are damaging young people every day, making them hate their healthy bodies in various ways and encouraging them to hurt themselves by using their services and products.

There's at least one in FWR.

But again I ask: where is the outrage for all the other clinical trials involving children and why is it only this one which merits multiple threads?

But this is the first thread not siloed off in FWR, I believe.

Do some MNers not want this more widely talked about?

I don't particularly care if it's talked about but again I would ask why all the other clinical trials involving children aren't talked about?

State-sanctioned child abuse

Couldn’t agree more. Which parent is going to “offer up” their child to be experimented on?

Im not aware of other research trials of drugs on children.

Could you start a thread about them with your links and I'll gladly read and comment. ?

There will be some pushing the 'little x has thought they were in the wrong body since 2 years old' we fully affirm their right to chose now they are 11 years old. Make x happy

Why would I start another thread? I'm asking why is it only this clinical trial which causes such a reaction?

But again I ask: where is the outrage for all the other clinical trials involving children

There's a difference between trials of treatment for leukaemia or epilepsy or genetic disorders, which may be life threatening or severely disabling, and trials of medication on children who are not ill but who may be left with lifelong consequences.

What other clinical trials are carried out on healthy children, which may have a negative impact on their long term health?

I don’t know. Does it matter? These are banned drugs shown to have no benefit from the systematic reviews that have already been done.

Give us some examples please so that we can tell you.

Every parent who does should be investigated.

And why don’t you care? These drugs have been shown to cause harm to children. They are drugs used to castrate sex offenders FFS.

It sounds like there was some ethical controversy about this trial, but not in the way posters are assuming:
“Some argue that there is already evidence that puberty blockers can help with mental health, and that in light of this it would be unethical to perform a trial at all because this would mean some young people experiencing gender distress would not be given them.”

I believe that the through systematic reviews that have been done, in here and in Finland, have demonstrated the opposite.

Who are the “some” who argue that PBs can help with mental health?

Playing devil's advocate... PBs were used in a far less controlled way, both in the NHS and privately, prior to the ban and many opportunities to collect data were missed. There is almost no data on the benefits/ harms from this period, and lots of anecdotal stories with strong views on both sides.

This trial will only be offered to a v small number of severely dysphoric kids in NHS clinics and only after thorough screening and MH assessments which is a million times better than what was happening before the ban. Data collection and follow up (hopefully) will be meticulous.

Hormone blockers have been used widely in adults and in smaller numbers to children with precocious puberty, and off label in gender dysphoria enough to have a reasonable understanding of the potential risks. A robust clinical trial is what's needed to determine if these drugs have any place at all in managing severe gender dysphoria in adolescents.

Start threads about the ones you are aware of with details and I'll gladly talk about them

So you're not bothered enough about other trials but don't like people chatting about this one?

If others bother you enough talk about them, if they don't then don't? But why moan about people talking about this, which is on the news today?

What causing this rise in gender dysphoria? Who's pushing it? Why do some children 'think' they are in the 'wrong' body? Where does that belief come from? There is a growth in children learning about this gender ideology and many vulnerable children pulled into this thinking

Are there any other clinical trials for children that involve giving drugs to healthy children that could cause immense harm including sterility and loss of future sexual function.

This.