To say that women look bloody weird ….

[GoingbackwardsForwards]

.. when the only part of their face that moves is their mouth and eyes.

And don’t get me started on the massive fish lips.

Never see any naturally beautiful young women on TV these days. Such a shame

I'm always amazed that MN is so pro-Botox, tweakments, cosmetic surgery etc, given that its demographic is so eager to proclaim itself feminist at every other opportunity. The plastic surgery and Botox industries are fundamentally misogynist in that their existence is based on reinforcing sexist beauty standards and extracting money from women who then feel they need to live up to them.

I feel sad in different ways when I see younger and older women pump shit into their face. When I see 20-somethings do it, it's honestly a bit devastating - they have so little need of anything to enhance their looks, but at the same time I remember how insecure I was at that age and how I rarely felt as gorgeous as, looking back at old photos, I actually was. I thought society would have progressed a bit further in terms of young women not being judged on their looks by now.

When I see 40- and 50-somethings do it, sorry not sorry but I feel sadness mixed with a bit of contempt. Like I said I know what being insecure about one's looks feels like. You're meant to grow out of that. You're meant to realise that there are a million more important things than your looks (particularly when it coems to what you spend your money on). The penny should have dropped that these beauty standards are a misogynist scam and can go fuck themselves. You're meant to have learned to love your face and its signs of aging for what they are. You're meant to be mature enough not to want to compete with 20-somethings (who will always look younger than you).

And the cost! I've seen the prices. I'm not into skincare serums but if people want those as a little treat to make themselves feel better, fair enough. But the sums people spend on shit like Botox just make me think they must be incredibly self-absorbed - of all the things in the world they prioritise that? It could never be me.

No, it's not, it's actually questioning why women feel the need to look a certain way to not be judged

LOL what bollocks. If the OP had merely questioned why cosmetic procedures exist then maybe, but she specifically said everyone looks "weird"- therefore she is just as guilty as judging and no better than anyone else

(One thing I will never do is criticise other women about how they look with Botox etc, though. It's not the point. I don't care how they look. I am, however, extremely happy with how I look - even though I objectively look older than I did 20 years ago, when I was much less happy with how I looked...)

And is it for the male gaze?

I agree. Im in my 50s and people are starting to have a few tweaks here and there. There is pressure to look a certain way and its depressing. What's the saying...comparison is the theif of joy. I don't really want to be the oldest looking just because all my friends have had plastic surgery. But I suppose that's the way things are going.

When I see 40- and 50-somethings do it, sorry not sorry but I feel sadness mixed with a bit of contempt. Like I said I know what being insecure about one's looks feels like. You're meant to grow out of that. You're meant to realise that there are a million more important things than your looks (particularly when it coems to what you spend your money on). The penny should have dropped that these beauty standards are a misogynist scam and can go fuck themselves. You're meant to have learned to love your face and its signs of aging for what they are. You're meant to be mature enough not to want to compete with 20-somethings (who will always look younger than you).

So, you think the answer to removing the judgement of women's aging and to promote natural aging is to look at people with "contempt" and tell them what they are meant to be doing eh?

Wow- sounds like that will work a charm- that strategy worked super well for people who are overweight didnt it?

Why do women get cosmetic procedures, do you think?

I agree with you 100%. I hate the duck lips (when they just get the top done) and the trout pout. What on earth do they not see when they look in the mirror???

Thanks for that enlightened input.

You're very welcome!

It's not women bashing to point out that it's wrong and weird to inject poison and plastic into your face. Women who criticise this are criticising not individual women, but a culture that pressurises young women into thinking any of this is normal. It's not normal, and it looks uncanny, and that does affect us all. Facial expressions are essential for proper human interaction and for babies to get feedback from their mothers. Women who get these treatments are financially and visibly supporting a culture that cannibalises them. Call me judgemental and mean for acknowledging this truth if you like, I don't care. It is what's happening.
In the words of Gail Dines, imagine how many billion dollar businesses would fold instantly if women all just woke up one morning and decided that actually, we're satisfied with how we look. We are fed insecurity every day and then these businesses sell us the "solution", often at real physical, emotional and spiritual cost to us.

There must be a word for that thing where people line up to tell women what they should do, how they should feel about their own bodies, and how they're allowed to spend their own money they earned... all so they can be good, obedient girls. It's on the tip of my tongue. Miso-something, wasn't it? Sounds like a lovely Japanese soup, but I'm fairly sure it isn't.

Botox to get rid of elevenses etc I can see is fine as it means you stop looking worried or angry. Its the bursting lips and fillers that do look weird and obvious and that's just a fact. You can tell straight away. If that's the look people are going for that's totally fine but like someone who is trans, most people can tell its not natural. But presumably the person who has had the fillers etc done knows that.

Totally agree with you, I frequently have to check myself not to stare at how some women look like a balloon with a drawn on face. I think older women who have aged naturally but well are beautiful.

This is all up for a reasonable debate and had the op posted in this manner - I don't think they would necessarily be getting for much backlash. But the fact is they did not. The post was bitchy and nasty and they should be called out for it.

How is making women feel rubbish about themselves because they've decided to have a procedure going to advance feminism or address the fact that so many feel the need to do this. This in my opinion is completely unacceptable and will not help at all.

How can I answer for all women? My personal reasons are not interesting to anyone else so no need to go into that.

My point is that women will always be scrutinised and judged for their appearances either way.

You don't understand sarcasm then?

As long as its personal choice though and not societal pressure. Which a lot of it appears to be. We need to encourage healthy self confidence in young women today and in this social media world teach them that appearance isn't the most important thing about them. Surely? Or have things changed so much since the 90s when I was in my 20s. Thank god we didn't have this carry on then. Life as a young person was so much more free. I blame mobiles for making us all examine our faces too much.

Where did I say that was the answer or a strategy? They were merely my feelings. Judgmental, sure, but this is MN - it barely scratches the surface of the judgmentalism that underpins this whole site.

The answer is for women to stop buying into misogynist beauty standards and to stop handing their money over to a misogynist industry. But that's not in my control.

I'd support an outright abolition of the entire tweakment/cosmetic surgery industry tbh.

Why have you felt compelled to get all your work done, honestly?

Agree. I get botox - have done since I hit 40. I am not going to stop because I like the way it makes me look. Me. I care about my opinion of my face. Its for me and I dont care what anyone else thinks.

Insulting me and calling me weird isnt going to suddenly make me stop doing it 🤣.

I am happy to have a civil discussion about it and the societal consequences of cosmetic procedures being in the mainstream in general as I think its an important discussion, but being called nasty things- "weird" and "plastic"? nah you can fuck right off, not engaging with that kind of rude bullshittery.

maybe different UK areas say it different then. Just was interested in why I was seeing that instead of “mind your own” lol

I wasn't asking you to speak for all women, I was asking your opinion, never mind.

I think the women must have felt rubbish about themselves to do it in the first place. Or at least felt their faces weren't good enough. That's probably the issue that needs to be solved. Self worth and being happy in your own skin.

Having said that it is interesting where you draw the line. All make up and skin care is trying to improve what you naturally have. Perhaps invasive treatment is just a step on from that. I just wish they would invent treatments that dont make you look like you are going to burst at any moment.

You are literally part of the problem- can you not see that? your attitude towards other women is vile.