That Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock should be prosecuted for the avoidable Covid deaths

[LlynTegid]

The part 2 report of the Covid inquiry finds that at least 20,000 deaths were avoidable, had restrictions come in a week earlier.

Various other findings confirming the failures of Mr Johnson and Mr Hancock.

I think they should face criminal charges, such as corporate manslaughter given government is an employer. AIBU

LlynTegid
I think they should face criminal charges, such as corporate manslaughter given government is an employer. AIBU

You are losing the vote OP - 67% of voters think you are being unreasonable.

Keir Starmer's lies are easier to prove certainly: Starmer originally claimed that only around 6 people were with him having curry and beer (it later transpired there were 16 people with him), he claimed that his hotel wasn't serving food that evening (the Radisson Blu Hotel said they were serving food on the terrace until 9pm), he claimed that all the pubs and restaurants were shut (they were open for outside service of food) ...

Not Keir's beer again, even Dan Hodges gave up on that

Johnson lied to parliament about partygate, he was PM during Covid and the inquiry has deemed he led a toxic and sexist government that harmed the Covid response

Apparently Keir Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister on record.

That may be

It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or the Covid Inquiry.

Starmer has already issued a statement on the report and thanked Baroness Hallett for her work - but will Starmer still be in post to consider all of the findings and recommendations? Will Labour have their first female leader and prime minister or will it be another job for the boys? Apparently a sexist culture harmed the Covid response.

Corporate Manslaughter is an offence committed by a corporate body, not by individuals. In this case the defendant would be the current UK Government of Keir Starmer.

It is the same principle that results in the current government at any time paying compensation to victims of previous government failings such as the Post Office Horizon system, infected blood transfusions dating back to the 70s (£11bn so far), the Windrush scandal (£60m so far), and ongoing compensation schemes for clinical negligence (about £3bn every year) and MOD failings (about £100m every year).

I really, really dislike Johnson and Hancock and think they are amoral, self serving and opportunistic bastards but no i don't think they should be prosecuted especially not for locking down too late. Even for better intentioned and more humane people this would have been a very hard decision to make and I don't think at that time it was 100% clear what the best decision was.

Im sure they don't care about how many deaths they caused and I always thought both of them are the kind of people who'd sell their granny for profit but no i think it's a very slippery slope to prosecute people for being incompetent

Quite likely I agree. Boris Johnson was probably more likely thinking about his next book and it was a one minute discussion.

Covid was around in 2019 and there were no excess deaths.

The government’s own documents which they published said if we lockdown we will causes thousands of deaths and they did it anyway. They are all guilty of mass murder. There was no need to lockdown and there was no need for a vaccine, Lockdowns were for the vaccine,

I have already posted why - she’d already conducted several complex enquiries, and she was empathetic. They knew she was going to be listening to the Covid bereaved, and other groups, representing those who had suffered during Covid.

As I said, I attended the session in Module 6 on care homes, when the bereaved gave accounts of their relatives’ suffering. I found it harrowing, and Lady Hallett had to listen to far more than me. She dealt with the impact witnesses sensitively.

See here:

https://www.gov.wales/appointment-of-rt-hon-baroness-heather-hallett-to-lead-uk-wide-covid-19-inquiry

Why do posters keep posting opinions on the Covid enquiry, when clearly they didn’t attend any of the sessions, haven’t watched any of it, or read the basic information about it online?

The campaign from an ex strategist did more for his win than anything the then opposition could conjure up. He’s in now and the public have taken a view on that.

What I need to hear is what plans the government and the science community ( hopefully in conjunction) have for preventing and/ or dealing with the next pandemic... for there most surely will be one.

There was supposed to be an emergency plan in place independent of which party was in office so I think a lot of the blame for knee jerk decisions by politicians lies with the civil service not running the emergency plan properly.
Issues with out of date medical PPE in warehouses designed for this sort of emergency coupled with a shocking ignorance of which companies within the UK could step up and supply PPE / build testing facilities is inexcusable.
The Inland Revenue has all this manufacturing and stock information as part of annual tax returns and audits but appear not to have been consulted.
There shouldn't be a situation where the chairman of one of the largest PPE manufacturers in the UK ( ARCO) is ignored whilst a small textile maker like Burberry is approached at great hype to make a few surgical gowns.
I hope the enquiry comes up with a better emergency plan with a way of knowing exactly what resources and skills exist in the UK. We should not be scrabbling around for supplies in any future pandemic.
A clearer emergency plan with reliable resources would help the politicians in power make better decisions.
I don't think you can prosecute politicians for the lockdown decisions because they were in uncharted waters and I believe they were doing the best they could. But you could sack civil servants who didn't do the maintenance/ monitoring of the existing emergency plan leading to panic situations, and there certainly should be prosecutions if racketeering can be proved.

I don't think you can prosecute politicians for the lockdown decisions because they were in uncharted waters and I believe they were doing the best they could

If that is the best they are capable of then clearly we had the wrong politicians!

Wales fared worse with their decisions. And they were stricter.

@AlertGoldDeerI can't remember those people breaking lockdown rules. Matt Handcock was caught snogging his colleague. Dominic Cummins drove miles from where he lived to "test his eyesight". But I can't remember the two medics breaking rules? They presented the facts and figures and advised the government but the government may or may not have followed the science as they had to weigh up other aspects as well, such as the effect on the economy.

it has been pointed out that Johnson told the enquiry he “worked continuously” in feb 2020; but it’s been reveal he took a holiday then. All too much for him. If so, that’s perjury, which is an imprisonment offence. We can only hope….

The Guardian reported that Johnson took four days off: 15, 16, 17 and 21 February 2020. I see that 15 and 16 February 2020 were Saturday and Sunday - does that count as a holiday?

He shouldn’t have taken any time off with a fast looming national emergency. His hero wouldn’t have done.

Having seen the way low paid key workers are being talked about on here today just because they have to claim UC , i hope if there ever is another lockdown these key workers say Fuck You and lock down too.

They let the Cheltenham Featival go ahead, when all other major events across the world were cancelled. I’m sure I saw somewhere that had they cancelled, the spread would’ve been slower.

They were damned whatever they did and no one knew what to do.

They made a decision and no one in history had been asked to do that in this country before.
Hindsight is wonderful - they got bits right and they got bits wrong. This hypothetical they could have saved lives- at the end of the day no one knows

Have spent a little bit of time trying to unpack a little bit of sense out of this comment. Nope - can't do it. It's completely bonkers.

I think the poster @Tontostitis is suggesting that the politicians in the Labour party who wanted even greater curbs on freedom are equally as criminal as messrs Johnson and Hancock.

I don't agree with criminalising words, so I don't think opposition MPs deserve prison sentences. My I have a great deal of sympathy for her sentiment. How free and easy people seem to get with personal freedoms is utterly terrifying.