Fiancé asking for a prenup

[Aquea]

Fiancé and I have had a relatively short relationship. We’ve only been together for two years. I basically had to make it very clear that I would not be having children without being married. Just for legal protection. Got a bit of push back on that in the early days but I did say that marriage was a non negotiable for me and if that wasn’t for fiance then he and I should part ways.

Anyway, now we are engaged. Fiancé has asked I sign a prenup. Fiancé has his own successful business. We’re not talking a champagne lifestyle but he is comfortable enough and owns several assets. His business is fairly large - employs 35 people. But the margins are small and the overheads are massive.

I don’t have an issue in some regards as I’m certainly not marrying for the sake of money alone. I plan to carry on working FT.

But the actual concept is extremely cynical and unromantic. It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted. I’m kind of sick of indirectly having to convince fiancé that I am good person to marry.

We plan to have children.

it just feels like it’s one thing after another. Ie having to explain my reasoning for wanting to get married and now a prenup. The path to being engaged just seems already so negotiated.

He has people's jobs to protect. Many business owners work long hours and divorce is not uncommon

I think your mixing your feeling of pre nup and sorting financial side with his general reluctance to get married

Possibly because this particular man wanted her to have children outside of marriage, and when that did not work only then started talking about pre-nups.

I think it's super sensible to get this stuff sorted out before kids or marriage (I never was a starry eyed romantic). However, it's telling that he would have been happy for her to bear his children outside marriage, but now that marriage is on the cards he's "lawyering up". Is OP comfortable with his views and actions around how and by whom the risks were to be born in those two different scenarios. I would not be.

OP do you have your own investments and assets (savings, a home) etc? If so are you able to value them? You say his business isn’t worth much, so potentially any prenup would see you not get a split of this tightly-margined company? Assuming you bought a property together and both names are on the deeds, I can’t see how a matrimonial home would be anything other than 50/50 split of equity in event of a break up. Is there something else that concerns you? Alternatively, why don’t you say no to prenup and children and see how your fiancé responds? As to other comments about 2 years being a long relationship, what a laugh, I’ve got pairs of M&S tights I’ve known for longer…

Your career will take a huge bash if you are planning on having children and if you are signing away your rights to everything you are losing everything, he is losing nothing. Should your .marriage break up you will bear huge childcare costs and find it difficult to work at all.
I'd bin this one. He doesn't sound worth it. I wouldn't marry anyone who could potentially make my life worse than it is now.

People getting divorced generally try to maximise their personal financial position. That is the case regardless of a prenup. So I’m not sure what your point is. Sure, divorce isn’t great for kids, but if it’s going to happen then it’s going to happen.

So he built this business before meeting you.

id say he has every right to want to protect that. A divorce could destroy his business and put 35 people out of work.

talk to him and work out what the prenup would mean, and indeed discuss how things would be re children and what would happen in the event of a birth injury preventing you from resuming your career etc. go into this with your eyes open, and make sure things are fair. Prenups aren’t binding in the uk, but judges can take the intentions into account and grant them if both sides are happy.

Because men are already in a stronger position by not having the risks of pregnancy, injury and impacts on their career and pension.

They have the easy ride of parenthood - just minimum CM worst case, many don’t even bother to visit their own dc after separation, much less raise them or parent them.

The inequality could not be starker when some couples split, and to go into a planned future without a guaranteed arrangement to house, provide for and feed and care for a child/children is utter lunacy. Op could be left with multiple children on her own in just the shoes she is standing in. I wish people would wise up.

In this scenario this specimen is already prioritising himself over and above both op and his future children. Red flags should be waving! 🚩🚩🚩🚩

I wouldn’t have a problem with a pre nup in theory but I would damn well make sure it protected me as much as him and had to be reviewed every 5 years/after each child and if the whole discussion had been raised in a different way.

Having said that - this man is not your person; that screams off the page. Nobody should pressured into marriage - it never ends well. (ask me how I know!) If he wanted to marry you then you would be in doubt about it.

I don’t see a problem with the prenup in itself, it seems sensible and not that different to you thinking about how to protect yourself.

I do think it’s important to notice how you’re feeling about it though and reflect on that. What’s behind it? Is it insecurity for you or is it raising something about him you’re unsure of.

If you feel you’ve had to push toward marriage for example, is that because you worry he doesn’t love you enough or you fear his commitment to you?

Not everyone wants to be married or feels that’s important so that’s not a warning sign in itself but are there others?

It really depends on what you include in it.

If it is purely to declare the business as separate to marital assets and no more I don't see an issue with this. He is protecting the livelihood of his employees and being responsible.

Any money moving from the business to a personal account would then instantly become a martial asset etc. If he was trying to protect that as well I would have more concerns.

To be acknowledged in UK law you have to have the independent solicitor advice you are discussing and a good one will run through all of the 'what if' questions and ensure you are treated fairly. Sometimes as you are not the one requesting it they ensure in reality if anything it is slightly in your favour.

It isn't romantic but if it is purely to keep the business separate he is making a responsible business decision and you shouldn't let this ruin things for you.

This is supposed to be the romantic honeymoon stage before kids, as delightful and magical as it’s ever gonna get. You don’t sound exactly swept off your feet.

I think it’s not really the prenup, just another thing in the list of things where you don’t feel cherished. If neither of you were into marriage that would be fine, but it’s clearly important to you so you seem incompatible.

There is nothing wrong in two people protecting their future individually, they should not get married. For marriage to work, there needs to be some leap of faith and commitment. Marriage is not enforced by the state. Don’t marry, simple.
I mean the same logic can be given for other things in marriage, shit happens in a lot of marriages but that does not mean you should start planning Plan B from start.

I honestly don’t think it’s the same thing at all. He says, let’s have kids. She says, if we’re going to take that big step, let’s promise to (try to) love each other always and share life’s up and downs, including our worldly goods. He says, sure, you share your goods but I won’t share mine.

I don’t see the point of marriage if you don’t intend to create an economic unit. If a woman friend said she wanted to marry but protect her assets, I’d wonder why she didn’t just want to live with the fellow, especially in England where you don’t have de facto marriage.

And if it’s for religious reasons, the Christian marriage service is very clear about the sharing part.

Also, joint ownership of a business doesn’t mean the business must close on divorce. If the business is well run with a sensible partnership or shareholders’ agreement, those 35 employees need never know the difference.

You made your relationship transactional by insisting on marriage first, not because you are in favour of the principles behind it but because you, understandably, want security.

He’s simply doing the same.

There have been many threads on here in the past of women in your partner’s situation being told to protect their assets before getting married. This is no different.

It’s really made me feel shit. Like I can’t be trusted.

the thing is you can’t be trusted. I’ve seen so many marriages that have broken down because the partners just can’t communicate anymore. No one’s particularly more at fault than the other objectively but the couple involved just can’t communicate anymore no longer be reasonable to each other. And they’re perfectly reasonable in other aspects of their life but literally they cannot be trusted to see straight with each other.

it might not happen to you, you might stay together for ever, or you might part amicably. But whilst you can communicate with each other why not protect yourselves from this situation?

alternatively if you can’t communicate with each other now then you’ve got no chance.

I was going to suggest something like this, ie get a pre-nup that works in your favour, OP?

''prenups are not automatically legally binding in UK'' says google.

I almost feel like ive had to push him to marry me.

And are you entirely happy to enter into a marriage knowing that, OP?

FWIW I think you've been very sensible in wanting marriage before children, but then he's being sensible in protecting his position too, so I could live with this but not with knowing I'd had to prod him into something which a man who truly loved you would do of his own accord

Do they? I'm not sure everyone goes on the premise of maximising their financial position aka having an advantage over your soon to be expected, some may work for a more balanced and amicable split - for the sake of the children and wanting the best for them which includes your ex's wellbeing. My parents divorced and my Dad paid well over the recommended child maintenance acknowledging what was best for all of us in that difficult time.

But that’s how you think. Op belongs to a different school of thought. And for op, this marriage won’t be good. Someone like you is a better match to OP’s partner.

Op is having doubts early on and she should not be asked to dismiss her intuitions because someone else might have felt differently in the relationship. This is not for OP.

I agree 💯

I’m a litigator. I do a lot of shareholder disputes. Fairly often, there is a divorcing husband and wife involved and the wife (it’s usually the wife in these scenarios but not always) wants half the shares in the business. That means that the company has to be valued first, and then the husband has to come up with the money to buy her out. If the business is successful, this can mean a lot of money. Quite often, the husband can’t raise that money because his only real asset is his own interest in the business.

So (depending on pre-emption rights), the wife might sell to a third party, or decide to remain a shareholder herself. In a scenario where the shareholders in the company do not agree on how it should be run, this can lead to significant legal disputes (where I come in).

Good news for litigators, bad news for the people who built and work in the business.

I don't understand your response at all. After the first five years, when we had two tinies, he'd have been responsible for their upkeep and assets since the day of the marriage wpuld have been equitably split, with my assets pre marriage secured for me.

Having children was part of our overall plan and I was very willing to have them, and due to his success post marriage for which the foundations were laid before marriage, I had the absolite privilege of being at home with the children for theor first seven years.

That’s good of your dad. I have never met anyone who had anything other than a very negative experience financially in divorce, me included, and I know a lot of divorced people. So I’d say the “good guys” are the minority.

Why are posters advocating for OP’s partner? Is it to feel validated their own feelings on matter?

Her fiancee is not the one who is worried enough to create a post.
Op has doubts about this relationship, and if this early on they are not 100% sure about each other, why are they getting married?

Women are screwed up more because only they can give birth to children and usually are the main care giver for the children. So this gaslighting of op that she wanted to marry for securing her future is not required.

Fact is OP’s fiancée didn’t want to marry and has reluctantly said yes. Op is feeling insecure already.