AIBU to wonder if DH’s parenting style could be harmful to toddler?

[TheBerry]

I really need some advice about parenting styles and whether I’m right to be a bit concerned or whether I’m being over-sensitive / worrying too much.

DD is 3yo. She’s honestly a sweet girl, surprisingly easy to reason with for her age, rarely tantrums, thoughtful. Obviously, like all toddlers, she has her moments and can cry if she doesn’t get her way, can be possessive over toys, but overall I think she is lovely.

I’m not consciously following any school of parenting but I suppose I lean towards “gentle” parenting - I definitely think boundaries are needed, I definitely think the word “no” is needed, but ultimately I think children should be treated gently, with kindness, and that getting angry or shouting is unhelpful. I’m not perfect and there are definitely times I’ve got frustrated with DD but tbh it’s normally easy to be patient and kind to her because she’s a lovely child.

DH adores her and vice versa. He is comforting, plays with her, lots of hugs, listens to her, protects her… but sometimes, especially when he’s stressed, I think he is a bit overly harsh and expects her to have the cognitive ability of an adult.

Here are some examples:

DD throws food on floor. DH says harshly / kind of shouts, “No! Why did you do that? You don’t throw food!” DD cries a lot, DH ignores her for a minute or so, then hugs her.

DD keeps wanting her fairy costume on and off. DH makes her promise that if she takes it off she won’t want it back on again. She promises. But then she does want it back on again. DH chastises her for breaking promise. She looks very ashamed and says “can I say sorry?” I feel so bad for her and say “darling it’s fine, you don’t need to say sorry, you’ve done nothing wrong” and DH then hugs her and says it’s ok. I probably undermined DH there, which I know isn’t good, but I just reacted without thinking. I think that clearly 3yos can’t fully comprehend the concept of promises and shouldn’t be scolded for being a normal toddler.

DH is trimming her hair. He’s getting stressed. DD was excited to start with but is getting more upset as DH gets more stressed. He keeps telling her to stop moving. She’s not even 3 here. She gets hair in her mouth and is very upset. My immediate response is to comfort her, but he just seems annoyed.

How damaging, if at all, do you think these kind of incidences are??? Given that generally DD is hugely loved, supported, and safe. I can generally be a bit anxious and I think I’m extra sensitive because I was a little emotionally damaged by my dad in childhood. I am so worried about DD being scarred by this, but ultimately I don’t know how much DH can change - I think this is just kinda how he is. DD quite often says to him worriedly “daddy, are you happy?” and maybe I’m projecting but I feel like I know exactly how she feels, that sense of responsibility for her parent’s happiness. She shouldn’t need to worry about that or feel that way.

YABU - nearly all parents get annoyed and frustrated with their children sometimes, and it won’t negatively affect DD’s emotional development as long as DH is generally loving towards her.

YANBU - even against the backdrop of a loving environment these kind of incidences will hurt DD’s development and you need to talk to DH about it to try to fix it.

Yes, I think I’m a bit hyper sensitive because of this.

I have a lot of very specific, clear memories from a young age, around 3 years old and maybe even some from 2 years old, which I understand is unusual. I think this colours my opinions a lot. I can remember a very similar incident with my dad (btw this minor incident isn’t why I say I was emotionally damaged by him, there were other worse things!) where I was in a high chair eating something like tagliatelle and I noticed a bit of the food was a very similar shape to something on the floor - I was very intent on it - and I thought I could drop the food onto the floor to match with the shape. I wasn’t thinking about being naughty or anything other than interest and curiosity about the matching shapes. Then my dad barked at me something like “no, that’s bad, stop that now!” I can’t remember the words really, so it’s nothing about the message of not throwing food, but it was just his voice. He sounded so annoyed and I just felt so shocked, ashamed, and hurt and I started crying. I didn’t think anything about why he was angry, I didn’t think “I’d better not drop food again”, I just felt shock and embarrassment. That’s one reason I think using a harsh tone with young children is at best pointless and at worst quite damaging. I think being calm and explaining consequences is more useful. Unless you’re yelling to stop them running into the road or something obviously!

And also OP, be mindful that if you make a big deal internally out of your DH emotions (like in the examples you’ve given) or start acting like you’re walking on eggshells not to make him frustrated, your little one will pick up on that. That used to be me and my husband. Once I let go quite a bit and accepted that he’s just a lot more impatient/expressive than me (and has other strengths) and I don’t need to try and solve or fix it, things have been a lot calmer; if there is a bit of stress building up, it dissipates quickly - emotions are very fleeting for toddlers, I think unless we make a big deal out of them, they cry and laugh in the same 10 seconds, and it’s okay for them to see parents having emotions and not worrying about them (all within a healthy frame of course). Not suggesting this is definitely happening with your family but just something I’ve learnt from our dynamic.

He is quite a highly strung, stressed person. He often has a tense / frustrated / exhausted vibe. But when he’s in a good mood he’s great - cheerful, playful, good natured.

He doesn’t put me down. He’s a good man, basically.

I don't personally think he's doing anything harmful. He's teaching her right from wrong, in a similar way I would. I'm a mother of four. The most harmful part of this scenario, is your daughter seeing you aren't on the same page. She'll use this to get what she wants, as she gets older, and play you off against eachother etc xx

Exactly what I was thinking. Undermining and criticising everything her other parent does will be damaging. Being told no to a third costume change or asking why she threw food is not remotely damaging.

Interesting that one of your specific triggering memories is around being told off for throwing food. I can't recommend therapy highly enough, it can be so helpful.

I mean that was just one example. It’s the harsh / shouting / irritated voice generally I find triggering I guess.

I’ve had talking therapy, CBT, EMDR… nothing has really done much! I always feel like after a while the therapist is expecting to see more progress and then I start feeling pressure to be fixed when I’m not. I’ve never really felt that any therapist I’ve had has really understood me or been on the same page. I am also late diagnosed autistic which may not help. The thing that helps the best is being in a peaceful, tidy environment and reminding myself what I have to be grateful for (plenty).

It's frustrating isn't it, when you try so many different sorts of therapy and none have the desired effect. Personally my breakthrough was seeing a specialist who specialised in trauma. You sound like a lovely mum and I am sure if you keep the conversation going with your husband it will help. Wishing you all the very best.

He's not going to be a perfect parent (neither are you!) and he's not going to do things exactly your way.
I'm sure there will be lots of instances where tone could be different, wording could be tweaked - but in the context of an overall loving and responsive relationship, it doesn't matter.
Humans are pretty robust and we don't require perfect parenting to grow up healthy.
Experiencing some negative emotions, is not going to damage your daughter.

I wouldn't be happy with the shouting.

Sorry to derail but surely only the coat thing there is a natural consequence? I see people using the term “natural consequences” a lot but really a lot of what people do is not natural at all. Surely natural consequences are what will happen without anyone’s input? Hence being natural. So yes if you go out without a coat you get cold. But surely removing food (or a toy or whatever) isn’t natural its just a normal old fashioned logical “punishment” or “discipline” type consequence? Because if I as an adult leave the house without a coat I get cold. But if I throw food across the room all that happens is I now have a mess that I need to clean up. No one removes it out of no where.

So I agree that letting kids know what consequences of their actions are, not everything is a natural one. The consequence of running into the road may be that the parent now forces the child to sit in a buggy or carries them. But the natural consequence would be possibly getting hit by a car. Obviously no one would allow that. But it is the “natural” consequence. If a child was repeatedly thumping other children the parent may remove the child. Perfectly logical consequence. But really the natural consequence would be that the child either gets hit back or they end up with no friends. I think people just like the term “natural” as it seems like a nicer way of putting it. But mostly it’s just normal consequences with discipline where needed.

Sounds like you are on the very "gentle" side of parenting to the point you think a 3 year old throwing food around is ok ( it really isn't) You maybe happy to put a dressing up costume on her 20 times in an hour, your husband isn't and he did explain that he wouldn't do it again, That is a lesson your child needs to learn< no more means no more, when do you think she should learn that ? Your Daughter will be off to school in just over a years time and the teacher won't be treating her as a princess. You need to stop undermining him before it causes problems between you both. He is her parent too.

I disagree. It's life, she will learn people can have different opinions and still love and be loved by them. Life is complicated, and she should be taught so in these subtle ways.

In other words, he's not perfect. No one is. It's good for a child to understand no one is perfect, they're just human. But she is still loved. I would really not worry about it and stop listening to the "you sneeze and you traumatise your child crowd". Firm but fair is the way to go.

I did explain that it’s not the message I disagree with, just the delivery. Of course I don’t think throwing food is ok, and I would not allow it. I also wouldn’t keep changing a child’s costume 20 times. However, I wouldn’t want to make the child feel bad or guilty about these things, and I wouldn’t use an irritated tone. I would use a firm tone for the food, and a kind “sorry, not any more darling!” tone for the costume.

I agree with firm but fair. Completely. I don’t agree with irritated (though I know it will happen sometimes), guilt tripping, or angry.

The most concerning example you've given from my point of view is him ignoring her when he's angry and she's upset. It sounds like it was only brief in this example and for that reason probably not damaging, but it made me wonder if he's also the type to sulk and give you the silent treatment if you disagree about something? I ask as someone who was previously guilty of doing this and found myself starting to do it briefly and in small ways with my DC when they were toddlers in similar situations to your DH, and realised this is exactly what my dad does when he's angry/frustrated and it's incredibly damaging. If that's a pattern, I would draw his attention to it because it is abusive, and it's possible to change if you work on it.

I think the fact that you are autistic is incredibly relevant here!

Have you discussed with any of your therapists that you might interpret tone differently to other people, or that it might take you a lot of energy to process other people's emotions?

I'm really not trying to gaslight you, but I think it is possible that you react more strongly than most people to a harsh tone of voice and/or that you interpret frustration/annoyance as anger. I also don't want to explain your autism to you but my personal experience is that it's at least as common for autistic people to be hyper-sensitive to others tone and emotion, as the stereotype of them e.g. not understanding that someone is upset. Does your husband upsetting the calmness that you crave actually disturb you more than your daughter?

I also think your response to the memory of your dad shouting at you is not necessarily typical. I'm in no way qualified to analyse you but I wonder whether you're retrospectively associating being shamed for autistic reverie/sensory experiences with this moment (intensely wanting to line the noodle up with the shadow on the floor is the kind of sensory experience some autistic children would love)?

No, he doesn’t sulk or give me the silent treatment. He gets annoyed and stressed easily but he isn’t abusive. He is a good person. I think the ignoring her when she cried thing was more “well, you brought this on yourself”. I still don’t agree with it though.

If you never use an irritated tone then there is a risk that your dd learns that you don’t have feelings or that being irritated is a bad thing. She’s at an age where she should be starting to learn to deal with the broad spectrum of feelings that life presents including the negative.

Obviously I’m not suggesting that you go from normal to explosive but preschoolers can be very fickle and it’s ok to say “This.is.the.last.time” when they are being like that. Being calm and clear obviously raises the chances of the child listening to you rather than reacting to adult anger and being scared. As much as you’d like to play Pollyanna, her peers and nursery/school teachers aren’t going to put that kind of spin on her behaviour and her peers in particular are likely to snap or shout.

Your h was silly to do the haircut. The chances of failing (having to do it over several sessions for instance) was high. It really shows how your h is unaware what typical 3 year olds are like. If he knew then he’d hopefully be more tolerant of her typical impulsive 3 year old behaviour and being wriggly during a trim.

I think a child absolutely needs to see if something they do makes their parents irritated or angry. And sometimes they should absolutely feel guilty. This is how we learn. To treat people, to behave, what's socially acceptable, what Mum and Dad will and won't put up with. And also, we can all experience negative emotions and learn to deal with them. We can deal with the situation and move on.

I dont agree with all the posters saying we are firm too its fine.

I'm firm...
But this...

DD throws food on floor. DH says harshly / kind of shouts, “No! Why did you do that? You don’t throw food!” DD cries a lot, DH ignores her for a minute or so, then hugs her.

isnt a firm "No. We dont throw food in this house" from an emotionally regulated parent. It reads as a angry frustrated man venting at a 3 yr old because she inconvenienced him.

Former is fine... latter not so much.

The anxiety and apologising etc from your dd is the marker his overreactions are a mishandling of the situation

Yes, definitely possible I’m more disturbed by / sensitive to tone than DD. Thankfully, she’s not like I was as a child. I think it helps that overall she’s in a much better home environment than I was. She doesn’t really show autistic traits, seems confident, happy, enthusiastic, thriving at nursery, comfortable socially, etc. So maybe these things I’m worried about will be water off a duck’s back for her!

Regarding the memory thing, I don’t think I’m seeing it differently retrospectively. I’m just remembering how I felt. That was just one example, but I have many many similar memories, many much worse. It’s just that memory is one example of how the harsh voice / shouting made me feel, and how it was completely pointless in making me learn not to throw food. Of course, in my case that was one small thing in the larger picture though. It’s not like that for DD.

But do you think a 3yo should be made to feel guilty for breaking a promise when they don’t even understand the concept of a promise? I think context is required here.

Calm and clear is good, I don’t have a problem with that. DD is thriving at nursery and they have nothing but good things to say about her.