To think the problem with wealth inequality is that rich people don't know how rich they are?

[Neeroy]

Article in the Times today saying that people earning six figures 'don't feel rich'.

Because they are surrounded by six figure earning peers they are comparing themselves to people who have more rather than the 90% of the population that have far less. This is why the budget is poorly received in the news, because rich people think they already shoulder too high a burden when in fact compared to everyone else they still have far more disposable income. Even if they have to cut down on the number of holidays they go on. They aren't sitting in the dark under a blanket. Or only making food that doesn't require turning on the oven.

I don't think they realise how so many people have to live.

www.thetimes.com/article/1fb46414-8f65-436f-8f95-451d69626148?shareToken=8061d939633164c0dfbd805240c8e008

You've absolutely no idea what might have been going on in the lives of your classmates though, and it's naive to assume you all had the same starting point.

Except now - at least for large multinationals - it can't be cut below 15% because of Pillar 2 (international tax agreement between most of the countries of the world).

People are so fixated by the "nasty corporate tax avoiders" that they fail to realise what is really going on in the world. It is more comfortable to take the easy view that current problems are caused by nasty faceless corporations than by a set of societal ills that we all need to work to solve. The reality is that tax avoidance is seriously significantly reduced since, say, the 1990s when it clearly wasn't causing significant harm and yet it is causing it now? Seems unlikely

Are we saying that no one growing up in poverty has a chance to study? I think that quite patronising to them.

Well despite being the only one on free school meals in my primary class, I am probably one of the highest earners.

£100k household incomes are something which are achievable by people from all but the most deprived backgrounds. Two mid career teachers on London could be on this salary. My DH is from a struggling family, mine upper working class - our families include plumbers, nurses, admin staff, teachers, construction labourers, care workers. Why would you think we are so very detached from their realities?

The way a "normal" person earns a £100k household income is by moving to London and coupling up.

And once you are in London you are in a new reality and all the numbers are different and the childminders also cost £2k and your mum isn't around. But you haven't magically transformed into a millionaire.

What you are saying probably does come in at a certain income point (I work in the City and have definitely met the kinds of people I think you're talking about, agonising over having to go to a slightly cheaper ski resort) but our point is just that a) huge fixed outgoings which aren't "luxuries" and b) inflation and tax drag over the last 3 years have had a huge impact, and many of the lower £100k earners are potentially genuinely struggling, not just relative to their peers.

PP didn’t “have the same starting point” as those featured in the article, yet here she is—thriving as a net contributor.

Exactly this. People cling on to ‘solutions’ symuch as tax the rich and tax the nasty multinationals when these two options have been bled dry. The ONLY viable option to raise a large amount money in the uk is to increase income tax or VAT.

If Rache Reeves tried to raise significant sums by looking at the smaller (usually very badly designed) taxes she’ll be toast.

No, of course not, but it's naive to assume that everyone had the same chance, or lack of hindrance. The 'messing around' could havd been just that or it could have been undiagnosed dyslexia, ADHD, autism etc. Home lives are often not what they seem either. It's just naive to not see the bigger picture.

And? Read my previous reply.

'Thriving as well net contributor' ..... 🫣

But some people do just mess around and coast through life though. It's stupid to pretend otherwise. Not every well off person was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, not every poor person has been held back by endless barriers.
Of course not everyone has the same chances in life. But some people do just piss away every chance they do get, and some people their best to seek out opportunity. It's not black and white.

Someone’s got to be the net contributors in the economy, eh?

Your jealousy and spite toward the previous poster is palpable.

It’s so true. So many bleeding heart liberals had a nice middle class life and just assume that all kids messing around in class have Sen, rather than preferring to mess around. It was decidedly uncool in my school to show any interest in learning. Should we feel sorry for the kids who were determined to be one of the cool kids? I don’t think so. They made my life hell.

I did read your previous reply and all I saw excuses. I grew up in a low income home with a dad that was in and out of work and a mum who became seriously ill in her 40’s. I was severely bullied at school, had undiagnosed autism that was treated as mental illness and tried to commit suicide at 16. I also missed a lot of school between 13-16 due to asthma that was exacerbated by my parents smoking.

But I still managed to qualify as a solicitor and earn the elusive six figure salary.

There are immigrants who has much worse starting points - who would DREAM of being born with UK passport, free school, excellent free or subsidised universities (not all countries have student loans), and access to jobs that were available here in the last 30 years. Despite any chaos at home.
I know a guy from India who was born in a mud floor hut and eventually was able to make a career and put himself through a top business school in the US.

Many many UK born have no idea how lucky and privileged they are. And they do indeed fritter their opportunities, think they will be ok on a low paying job because what’s the point of aspiring to more, and then whine that someone else has 6 figure salary and they deserve more.

Just because someone worked in local government you feel able to make such a sweeping statement, that they haven't "contributed" to society? Ridiculous! And offensive. Perhaps our society fails adequately to recognise the contributions made to society by employees of local and national government, but that doesn't mean they don't contribute. Public sector institutions didn't come into being because people wanted to waste money but because they addressed needs that otherwise went unmet or were met only ineffectively and inefficiently.

If a local road needs to be repaired, and a council highways department employee identifies the problem and employs a private contractor to carry out the work, then does that highways worker merely drain the public purse, making no useful contribution, while the contractor's HR manager or finance director is somehow heroically contributing? Of course not. And does a police officer not contribute while a privately employed security guard in a shopping centre does? No.

This attitude undervalues contributions that can't be measured in the crudest financial terms. It also fails to recognise the monetary value of the work the public sector does. Businesses can't create wealth without roads and other infrastructure. They need an educated pool of potential employees. They need law enforcement and social programmes without which crime would soar, towns and cities would be unpleasant and lawless places to be, and businesses would lose out on passing trade and have to spend vastly more on security.

I think it's very widely accepted that "net contributor" refers to finances, so don't get all righteous about other contributions. It is a symbiotic relationship - public sector is funded by private sector. It is true that government jobs (or certainly not as many of them) and the generous pensions wouldn't exist without private sector tax payers. Nobody said it's heroic, but we all make choices about the sector we work in, and things do have to be paid for by somebody.

So explain why I am not a net contributor.

Can you please point me to the post where I said you weren’t?

Show me your financial details, and I’ll be able to help you work it out.

Thank you! The person alse seems unaware that many Local Govt employees earn 6 figures!

So you were a 6 figure earner yourself?

Sorry it was someone else.

I can work it out myself thank you.

None of your business!

You've got plenty of opinions about other peoples money, why so cagey about your own?