Help - Can’t stand MIL and not sure how to navigate this

[HappyMummaOfOne]

Sorry this is LONG!
I know I am probably being unreasonable but I just feel “done” with my DH’s family and am now in a position that I think a confrontation is approaching and I’m not sure sure how to respond when it does happen.

When we first met I really tried to get on with them but 9 years down the line I just don’t want the negativity anymore and feel it’s more beneficial to distance myself.

For background I have been with my husband for 9 years, married 5 and we have two young children (4 & 1).
.At the beginning we were both living at home with our parents and when visiting him I would make sure he asked permission from them if I could go/stay over, I would always make sure I would say hello and spend a little bit of time with them before DH and I would go out/go up to his room/ head to another room ect - and at the end of the visit I would seek them out to say thank you for having me ect. It was the way I was brought up and I always wanted to be polite whilst in their home.
The very first time I met his mother she refused to look at me/speak to me which I found very strange and it took her two weeks to even acknowledge my presence. I will never truely understand why as my DH couldn’t explain it and just said “oh it’s just the way she is”. When she did eventually start talking to me it was only because DH mentioned I had been to a holiday destination that they were visiting and she suddenly seemed interested in me because I had traveled extensively.

Over time it became very clear that DH parents are EXTREMELY opinionated (to the point if you don’t agree with them they get very argumentative and just won’t let the subject drop) so I quickly realised it was best not to offer up opinions or to just smile and nod to avoid a long rant. They were so rude and offensive with some of their comments I would find myself literally lost for words at what was coming out of their mouths. They are rude, nasty, racist, fattist and generally just not people I would choose to spend my time with. Some of their comments would be directed at my DH and I really struggled to not bite back and defend him but we had a long conversation when we were in private and he made it clear he didn’t want me to “make an issue” and say something so I would always bite my tongue.
Examples :-

• showing his parents a picture of the suit he had chosen for our wedding - MIL “well you won’t look like that you’re double their size! Are you sure it is going to fit”
• Having a meal with them and MIL grabbed his stomach and calling him fatty. Then proceeds to give him the left overs.

Weight comments were constant and she would put him down because his job isn’t as well paid as his brothers.

When we finally bought our first home I asked that he speak to his parents and ask that they stop making nasty comments to him as I said if he didn’t address it then I would as it was now my house and I didn’t want the comments in my own home. He did bring it up in a jokey way and when his mother said “she could say what she wanted” I responded “not in my house” and stared her down.

When I had my first daughter during Covid they asked when I was due…then booked multiple holidays over my due date so they didn’t meet our daughter until she was nearly a month old. They did the same thing with my second. (Great for me as I got peace from them but I know it confused my DH as to why they wanted to be away and not meet their grandchildren like “normal” grandparents.)

• They would then berate me that I wasn’t breastfeeding.
• Made it clear we were not to expect any childcare from them as they had their own lives and didn’t want to look after any “sprogs”.
• We’re disappointed our daughters weren’t boys and even told my husband it was a “shame they are girls”
• When my daughter cried when they were round I was told to put them in the other room and close the door!! (I did not do this obviously)

These are just a couple of the examples.

I continued biting my tongue with the other comments (comments on our decisions as a family, parenting decisions, nasty gossiping about other members of the family ect) but I found that following a visit from his family DH and I would bicker a lot. So two years ago I set myself a New Year’s resolution that I would take a step back in regards to his family. I thought that I would leave the relationship purely in his hands.

• I stopped reminding DH that we hadn’t seen his family for a while so as he wasn’t bothered in sorting contact we could go weeks without seeing or speaking to them even though they only live 5mins away.
• When we did see them I would let DH or in-laws lead the conversation and found it easier to not engage too much. They don’t engage with the kids and barely have a relationship. They spend the visits just talking about their holidays and don’t seem interested in our lives so I stopping offering up information on what we were up to.

I have never stopped DH seeing or speaking to his family and have suggest that he take the kids alone with him if he wanted to see them. This however has caused some friction as he thinks I should “put up” with his mother for him. And I don’t understand why he doesn’t want to see them without me.

It all came to abit of a head with a family drama with one of DH brothers and I have removed all of his family from social media, muted them on WhatsApp and planned on happily avoiding them for as long as possible. However today his dad asked my DH if he had done anything wrong and …..my DH said “no of course not”.
So I know an in-law visit is probably imminent and have a feeling someone will ask why I have removed them from social media and don’t see them very much.
What do I say??
A) scream I can’t stand you, you are awful people and I can’t stand being around you!!

B) make up some rubbish about taking a break from social media (but I feel this is just masking the issue and being fake)

C) try to find a way to explain that their actions over the years have upset me and I just don’t want to have a fake relationship with them. They are welcome to see DH and children but I find nothing of value from their interactions and would prefer to not be involved with them.

D) option that I haven’t thought of - welcome suggestions.

Reading this back it doesn’t explain even a fraction of the issues I have with his parents but trying to articulate nine years worth of insults and problems is so hard. When my DH was a child he went to live with his Aunty as his parents “couldn’t cope” with him and wanted to give him up! They eventually took him back after a few months of the Aunty begging them but my DH tries to downplay this as he was just a little shit and it was all nothing. As a parent myself I can’t comprehend this. DH even now as an adult seems desperate for their love and approval which I just don’t think he is ever going to get. They were awful parents and even worse grandparents! I feel he is only wanting to push a relationship with them as he thinks he can somehow win them round but I don’t feel I have anything to prove to them and I don’t need their approval.

Half of me thinks I should just suck it up for DH but the other half of me thinks I shouldn’t have to put up with his parents rude behaviour. What does wise mumnetters think.

H and I went no contact with certain toxic members of his family - not that there was much to start with as they are twats- and life has been brilliant.

'If you can hold firm and be calm and agree calmly it sucks and change the subject he has to then deal with the emotions himself.'

Respectfully disagree, from a person who has parents like OP's ILs. It's difficult for me to write this. I almost always lurk online as I don't like to be drawn into discussions (trained fawn response). But. I'd have been brokenhearted if the one person I thought I could trust seemed like they didn't want to talk about something that is obviously tearing me apart (I use past tense here because I went no contact a few weeks ago, decision final. But I did break up with an otherwise lovely guy over this because my parents had hoodwinked him and he just wouldn't see/listen to the bad parts. Which were core to me as a PTSD/trauma lens/cage I'd lived my whole life in.).

I agree that OP shouldn't lead the discussion, say the quiet parts out loud etc, but as someone who's finally broken free of this - it's being able to name the behaviour, verbalise it, see it for what it is, that finally starts to break the hold.

Everyone is different, ofc. But my parents sound so similar to the DH's here.

This type of trauma is a crazy, crazy thing. The parent/child relationship is such a fundamental one throughout human history that growing up knowing your parents don't love you is gaslighting on a massive scale to a child.

OP, your DH is lucky to have you. The fact that I have good friends who understand trauma and who get close enough to see below the guard - rare - did help a lot, even if I figured it all out for myself in the end.

Wishing you both well.

They sound bloody awful and I wouldn't let them in my home.

Keep going with the slow fade OP.

Life is too short to endure shitty people around.

OP one of my good friends and her DH were in nearly the exact same position as you, including the sending her DH away, to his grandparents, for 2 years!!!!
She did similar to you and when she was called out on it by her FIL she just said (after practising it for many weeks)
"Well at this stage in my life I've just decided to only surround myself with and spend time with, people who bring joy to my life, people who are kind and emphatic and who are most certainly not cruel, who do not make nasty and hurtful comments and most importantly who are a positive influence on my childrens lives"
She then walked out of the room and left the house with her 3 boys.
It was actually the turning point for her DH because as soon as she left they started on him, giving out about and slagging her off and for the 1st time in his life he told them to stop and asked them to leave.
Deep down he still wants to be acknowledged and loved by them but has started to realise that it's not him. It is 100% them.

Holy hell, they sound awful. As others have already said, it could well backfire to give in laws the satisfaction of a blow-up, and continuing to quietly distance yourself and not emote is probably the best path.

It really sounds like your DH would benefit from some therapy after a damaging childhood. You say further up the thread that he wouldn't agree to this, but might he be willing to read a book on the subject if you can find one that you think would be relevant? Or if you think he would resist that, a more subtle way to get him to face some of these old wounds might be to give him a parenting books that talks about a respectful relationship with your child and imagines things from the child's point of view.

Philippa Perry's "The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read" could be a good start. You could read it yourself and then rave about it to him as having a great framework for raising your own children - and get him to read it on that basis, not making any reference to his own upbringing. There's no way he'll be able to get through it without reflecting on the way his own parents treated (and continue to treat) him.

Worst case scenario, you both read a great parenting book. Best case scenario, he starts to pull at some of these threads and face up to the fact that the way he was treated was damaging.

I wouldn't worry about your own kids - you have infinitely more influence over their lives than a visit every couple of months from two disinterested old people. I lived with a very toxic older family member for a few years and it was not the family member that did the damage to me, but the stress they piled onto my parents and the way my parents responded to that - so that's the thing I think you need to watch. Try not to let it impact your relationship with your DH if you can... And try not to let them add to your mental load more than necessary - because then you have less patience left for your own children.

I have no advice other than to say I feel your pain. I have terrible in-laws and they are now banned from house. The SIL is even worse - they are rude family and I am not prepared to have it in my house. I’ve tolerated their silent treatment, sulking and rudeness for years but enough is enough. They no longer see my children - they send cards through obligation with money because that’s the type of people they are. They are better off without people like that - I’ve never stopped them seeing their grandparents but they don’t want to. Sometimes you need to cut these people out your life!

I have this situation. They will simply never change. By confronting them you will only allow them to villify you. Rather than address the issues they will orchestrate it so that anybody and everybody understands that you are the principal reason for the relationship breakdown. That it is as a result of your behaviour rather than their's. You will be cast as the abuser to everybody in their sphere. They do not have the capacity of self reflection so simply cannot be expected to.
I made this mistake.
It's simply easier to allow the relationship to fade from your side with no explict reasons given -it gives them less tangible ammunition. It makes the rare occasions when you meet less fraught. Better to grey rock than two parties hissing at each other. One day you can have a honest chat with your adult children as to why you don't get on but until they are adults you will have to navigate that. If they show limited interest in your children that is sad but makes things somewhat easier.

I agree with the slow fade/grey rock being the best option.

Like others have said, they've likely noticed the change in your attitude towards them, but the joy of the grey rock is that it's impossible to prove.

If you're really pushed to give a reason, there's a range you can use. From "Oh, I just decided to dial back on my social media use." Right to, "I decided to unfollow the people I don't really click with." Followed by a long, hard stare.

I also like asking people to repeat their awful statements. When they next call DH fatty, ask "I'm sorry MIL, what do you mean by that?" Depending on the person, they'll either backpedal or repeat. I'm guessing your MIL would repeat. I'd then give a confused shake of the head and a "I thought that's what you'd said... how... strange." Then sit there with a puzzled face for a moment, followed by an "only MIL could say that" exaggerated eye-roll.

Personally though, I think I'd just go for the long avoid. Your DH knows how you feel, and if he wants to see them, you won't stand in his way. But the day they want to visit, you're running some long overdue errands, seeing a friend from out of town, at the dentist, anything really!

Your PIL are toxic people and abusive
Your MIL has alcohol issues
They will likely never change
Do not put your children in situations with them
Support your husband but be very boundaried, you are not his verbal punching bag
He is very lucky to have met you, many people would have run a mile
Both my parents and PIL are not particularly nice people and were cruel so we have very minimal contact and they do not see our children
Good luck

I've only skim read except your posts, OP, so apologies if someone has already said this...

I'd recommend you read the book Toxic In-Laws by Susan Forward. (She also has a book called Toxic Parents, but I doubt your husband is ready to read it - yet!)

It will likely take your husband a long time to accept that his parents are the problem, because it will obviously be a massive emotional loss for him to come to terms with. It is much, much easier for him to cast you as the unreasonable one, as then he doesn't have to face up to the awful reality. "My wife is otherwise lovely but is oddly unreasonable about my parents" is a lot, lot easier then "My parents are awful people who do not love me".

You've had lots of good advice here about how to help speed up his realisation as much as possible (it's fascinating how much things have already changed since you simply stepped back from buffering his relationship with them), I would also advise settling in for the long term and learning some coping strategies for yourself while you wait for him to face facts.

I'm sure this thread will already be helpful in that sense as having your own experience recognised and described by others is validating in itself. Have you read the Stately Homes thread too?

Totally agree with this approach. Honest but polite every time.

I had this with my partners (been together 14 years now) mum and dad off, when my son was turning 3 and we went round his grans house for a bit off a party and she kept making comments about it was time I had another child! I suffered really bad with morning sickness and really bad post natal depression (majorly due to his mothers interfering!) I lost my rag with her that day told her to mind her off business, left and swore I’d never speak to them again! I’ve stuck by it and it’s been over 5 years now! There a very selfish and tight family, latest is my son isn’t allowed to have more than £15 at Xmas but she wants a joules jumper what’s £100?! Get rid of the toxic crap our your life! Regardless of them being your husbands parents, it’s Your life! Time to cut the dead wood and be rid.

You don't need any other advice than this...

Your husband is in a similar situation to many in that he is trying to get what he didn’t get in childhood from people unable to give it. He would get great benefit from learning about codependency and attending a Codependents Anonymous meeting. It’s been life changing for those I know who have pursued it.

^^ I think this is spot on.

Don’t give them further sticks to beat you with op. There is zero point in confronting them because they have proved themselves completely insensitive and incapable of change over nine years. Be as slippery and non-commital as they are!

Just continue to withdraw and keep them guessing, and live your own life as you have been doing! Like turning them on “mute” if you like. Remain civil and interact with them the bare minimum.

Where this leaves your relationship with your dh though, I don’t know. He seems to be following his family’s pattern of not listening or even acknowledging there is a problem. His first loyalty should be unequivocally to you and his children. And speaking of children; if he can’t get on the same page with you about his parents, then you absolutely must agree on clear boundaries when it comes to your pil’s relationship with your dc.

It’s also very unfair of your dh to, on the one hand not acknowledge or validate your issues with his parents, but on the other hand, require you to be there when he sees them! Your role as his wife is not an emotional buffer pad! It’s pretty cowardly of your dh to treat you this way but he is obviously deep in FOG. I think you need to be firmer with him op or seek some couple’s counselling to help you negotiate this specific issue.

D) moving far away (at least 3 hours drive from them).

If moving isn’t an option, I agree with pp that being out whenever they visit and being generally unavailable with your DC to see them is your best option. Long term, I think your DH would really benefit from therapy to help him process just how shitty his parents are.

A simple reason to have no contact with them is that you do not want to associate with racists and don't want your DC near them. The oldest DC is old enough to hear and repeat any racist comments, say in school, without knowing how offensive they are and what the consequences could be.

Fully support this. Nothing to be gained by having it all out with them, only you will waste your nerves and fall out with DH. Just minimise contact, avoid direct answers, and absolutely do not start any of “those” conversations, keep distance. If asked - just say I am not sure, my phone has been playing up… And go to make the longest cup of tea ever.

Omg, this is awful. Of course you can't stand her/them!

I'd go no contact, I wouldn't want my kids around this and agree with PP, your poor DH requires therapy.

I could have written the first part of your post. I no longer see my in laws, and they do not see our children either and do not put any effort in to contact me at all, they will occasionally call dh and go into his work place to see him and if they have gifts for the kids its taken into his work place... they are really unwelcoming people and my mil has said some really hurtful things over the years that were out of place and undeserved.

We tried to have a relationship with sil but she always rejected me/us and it got worse after mil said some shit about me that was not correct after mil attacked me verbally and I cried... I have only ever tried to be nice to them. I tried so hard to be liked by them, then after some years I realised its them not me after all!

I think they are all neurodiverse because my dh is and so are our children and the mil made mention of it being from their side... I had no idea of course hence we had the kids... I just thought they were mean for means sake and I thought my dh was a big softy but its more than that I now know...

Its been way nicer mentally to pretend I have no in-laws, my kids have no aunty or uncle as I am an only child. They do not care about me and the kids, that's for sure.

This

I stopped making any effort with my in laws not because they are awful people, they are just self centred…. I realised that I was making all the effort to keep them up to date with grandchildren activities etc
Once their daughter had children, our children were kind of forgotten about. They invite their DD and grandchildren around but we don’t get invited so instead of quietly fuming about the lack of interest in their Grandchildren I just dropped the rope and it’s been refreshing.
I removed myself from the family WhatsApp group so I don’t have to see any of their messages/pictures of what the other grandchildren are up to and told my DH that he was in charge of keeping up contact with his side of the family. My one concession is buying gifts for the children for birthdays/Xmas because I know he wouldn’t bother and it’s not fair for the kids not to be remembered on their special days. I am polite/civil to them if there is a family event and take an interest in their news but then I won’t have any contact with them at all until the next time.
I suggest you do the same and just let it go, If your DH is like mine he won’t really bother to organise visits either so their contact with you will just dwindle.

Definitely this. Poor husband ❤️

I would not let these horrible toxic people around my babies!!

I had comments about not being a boy (I am the only granddaughter), and when I was pregnant I got a comment along the lines of ‘I’ll still love it if it’s a girl’ it’s toxic and not ok!!

Your husband is desperate for their love and attention because he is still that little boy shipped away to his auntie’s unwanted…he’s desperately trying to be ‘a good boy’ and prove to them he can be that perfect little boy they wanted.

This is so toxic for your babies and at 4 they pick up EVERYTHING!

I'd say option C too but they'd find ways to twist and turn it on you, they sound the sort. My in laws are very similar to this and my DH does similar things to yours too. I've also taken myself away from his parents.

Sorry you're going through this OP. Hope things turn out OK and your DH gets the help he needs.