To think perhaps my son isn’t autistic but instead modern society is too challenging for him to cope with.

[SpinningTops]

My son is 7 and on the long waiting list for an autism assessment.

Sometimes I wonder whether he would cope absolutely fine if he was an 80s or 90s child. Maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but modern life seems so chaotic and jam packed, so much to learn at school etc.

He’s in a small class at school and seeing the number of children struggling, so many with ‘special jobs’ to just get them into the classroom, makes me think something is wrong with the system rather than all these children being neurodiverse. And this is an absolutely wonderful school which outwardly he says he loves.

It’s just something I’ve been thinking more and more about recently …

Yes different environments suit different people differently don’t they.
Modern life might well be harder for ND people in some ways. On the other hand in the 80’s there wouldn’t have been much support, understanding or adjustment available, it was still very much sink or swim.

I’m not entirely unconvinced that, severe neurodivergence aside, what is labeled now as ASD isn’t just part of the spectrum of neurotypical wiring.

So many middle aged women are being diagnosed as autistic now. Everything I read online chimes with everyone I know. We all struggle with these feelings of being an alien in a different land, we all feel like we’re muddling through. I think women are too introspective for their own good and need to label everything. Is there the same trend in middle aged men?

I look at so many aspects of myself and my husband and think “autistic!” But we are not, and neither is anyone else we know despite their struggling with the same things we do. A lot of what people struggle with is simply life and the human condition. We just didn’t used to be so bloody introspective and self-absorbed about everything in previous generations.

That’s really interesting because the ND accounts I see on Instagram are very reliant on screens, fibre optic lights, sensory balls and swings, trips to soft play, overstimulating YouTube and games, basically everything that your post indicates would be a nightmare

I would ask if they are thriving, especially in school. What you see on instagram/TikTok is not always what you see for everyone - and I would wonder if this is partly trying to find or create some order within a difficult world.

Check out Peter gray and Naomi Fischer op they have written some interesting stuff on this. Schools are not what they were, they are very very controlling even in primary now and anxiety inducing and many children are being blamed and pathologised for not being able to cope when actually it is the stressful school environment which is at fault.

pl google infant reflexes not going dormant lots of posts on Mumsnet

It’s also worth noting that in the 80s and 90s, there were a couple of hours of kids TV after school and Saturday morning and that was it. You had to wait a week for the next episode of your favourite program and you didn’t have whatever you wanted ‘on tap’.

Kids now have constant access to their programs and can seek out episode after episode. They don’t have to wait to watch what they want, it’s right there feeding the instant gratification. You see this with people when they binge watch. “Just one more episode” and before they know it it’s 3am. People don’t want to wait (and don’t have to) anymore. So brains get the hit again and again.
Combine this with iPads and games consoles and it really is no wonder we are in this situation with so many diagnosis or both children and adults.

I would be interested to know what percentage of children nowadays are 'autistic'. It does seem that a huge number are - when does anyone come on any of these threads and say that their child is 'normal'!!!

As someone who taught in the '90's, I can tell you it's never been any different. If he struggles now, he would have struggled then.

It’s not that simple. You’ve lumped all ND people into one group which makes you look disabilist. For a start there are three categories of adhd - the hyperactive behaviour type might enjoy soft play due to the movement. They might not be worried about noise but a child with autism might find this too stimulating. It’s well known lots of ND kids use games to help them cope with being overstimulated because games can be a distraction for them and they get to zone out from their brains for a bit.

Yeah, I'm 51 and feel the same. I don't know if it's so much modern life though (much as I'm addicted to my phone and hate hate hate being so) as the effects of perimenopause and maybe burnout from trying to hold it together as a parent and functioning adult.

I have an adult child who had a single diagnosis in the 1990s. They clearly have a combination of SEN that were just not diagnosed in the 90s.

We just know more now. And yes, I do think ND is the norm. Rather than NT.

We need to change the way we teach for all kids. But that would take money and investment in education.

To be fair nobody would need to explicitly say if their child WASN’T autistic but I take your point. I’m surprised to click on a thread about anything - house prices, where to go camping, the news - and not see multiple mentions of autism and ADHD.

Would they have struggled to the point that they were unable to leave their house or even bedroom? This is what I am seeing increasingly frequently. I spoke to a teacher from an affluent high achieving secondary and he reported that they can’t manage the number of children who are unable to manage or need an EHCP

I do agree OP, as a parent to 2 ND young people who have been through the school system, I often wonder if my eldest dd would have got a diagnosis in the 80’s. I see many kids waiting for a diagnosis mainly because they don’t fit in at school, they struggle with social anxiety or they just can’t concentrate on learning. The educational system just isn’t suitable for everyone and it needs to change. Instead of labelling children maybe they should except the fact that the school system isn’t suitable for a lot of children and it needs to change. It makes me feel sad and angry that such young children are being expected to sit still in a classroom with large numbers of other children, being put through tests and exams at a young age and being told they are not meeting milestones at the right time. Children are struggling with the system, teachers are struggling and more children are being put through diagnosis for ASD, ADHD and dyslexia resulting in huge waiting lists for diagnosis, more children waiting for EHCP assessments (many being refused). If the education system was more tailored to individual needs and made less about numbers and expectations then maybe these children would not need EHCP’s?

I think bullying was more socially acceptable in the 80s and 90s. Teachers could attack and ridicule children for not fitting in. This let off pressure for teachers and as long as the majority of children succeeded it was seemingly acceptable. The effect on the Nd children wasn't noticed or measured. Now the academic side of education is assessed diligently and Nd children are to an extent accommodated. There's more pressure all around but imo it is better now as the professionals are more clued up.

I'd recommend reading 'the age of diagnosis' by Suzanne O'Sullivan (a neurologist).

It not only tackles whether we're over-diagnosing some illnesses but also looks at how useful a diagnosis is even if it is accurate. For example, dementia is being diagnosed earlier and earlier. But there isn't actually a cure. So does it really help people to know they have this slow but inevitable disease?

She looks at autism and ADHD as well. Very interesting book.

Sensory difficulties arent well understood. Some 'nd' need sensory input to regulate and others need to avoid it to regulate and most have a mix depending on the sense and the input. ( all humans do, its just some people tip into disorder territory)

For instance, my son has an issue with proprioception. His body feels like it is falling through space and that is uncomfortable and frightening feeling. He needs activities that help ground him. These are things that involve pushing/pulling and heavy work and spinning, so you might think we were winding him up, but he would calm.dowm doing that. This stops him banging his head against a wall to create an input that does the same thing.

I have two children diagnosed with ADHD and one is also diagnosed autistic.
Both are high functioning and at university. Most people wouldn't know.

I am convinced that it is modern life and in particular screens. I don't think they are necessarily ND. I think the modern environment causes kids today to deal with an endless stream of random distraction and this then means they cannot focus properly. They never spend time just sitting thinking.

If I had my parenting time again I would not allow them screens but the reality is that this isn't sustainable in today's world. I also think kids today are massively overloaded for no reason and they don't have time alone in their own heads. They are constantly doing activities and being rushed from place to place. For no real benefit really. Few adults suddenly get out their violin and play even they learned as a child. Few adults suddenly perform a high level ballet routine in their kitchen. Even the kids who are the top of their sports class/club rarely go on to be professional athletes. The chances are extremely slim but it dominates their lives (and also causes stress and lack of downtime for parents).

Kids need time to learn how to just be. To get bored. To think through their feelings rather than just numbing their brains with distractions.

Both of my kids are at uni sharing halls and houses with others. They say that most people stay in their rooms most of the time - even in the sociable halls. They might go out and party a couple of times a week but 90% of the time they are in their rooms with their doors closed on their phones rather than sitting around just chatting and learning how to interact properly.

I do think there are some personality types that found it easier to find a niche in earlier generations. Not the 80s and 90s. More like the 17th century. My nephew has ADHD and autism. He’d have made an excellent ship’s mate on a tall ship, climbing the rigging and being on deck in all weather. He’s simply not cut out to sit still in a classroom and there’s something wrong when a society has to drug a child to make that possible. I think he’ll be fine once he has completed GCSEs and has more choice, but school has been an endless struggle.

Haven’t read the full thread but I was in front of a class of older primary age children this week after quite a length of time of not mixing with this age group. I was shocked at the lack of concentration and to be honest that they were allowed to get away with it, frequent activity breaks etc. it must be so difficult to teach in a classroom now

Plenty of schools are operating with reduced class sizes due to fewer children entering education on account of low birthrate. In my city, most central primaries are reducing forms or going to mixed year groups. In rural areas small classes in small schools are definitely a thing.

As a primary teacher with 30 years experience, I think the way schools are operating now really is much more pressured than when I entered the profession. We expect much, much more from children, much earlier in terms of their development. Staff levels in classes is down across the board so fewer adults to support.

I also have a child who was referred for an NHS autism assessment by her primary school SENDCo, and who was -a long 4 years later, and only after fast-tracking as things were really breaking down- diagnosed. I don't dispute the diagnosis but I am certain that my child would not have struggled so badly even 15 years ago, let alone when I first started teaching. And had my DC gone to school in my country of origin, where learning is framed and resourced altogether differently, DC would have had a very different experience of education. It's such a pity because DC now feels defined by the difficulties DC has experienced in education.

I mean, it could be both?

I think autism/ADHD are much more prevalent than previously thought, but also agree that modern schools are extremely stressful for children, and that will show up more for any child who has any additional difficulties.

I do think a lot of children were dismissed or overlooked in the past. I appreciate it might feel differently if a 1980s style classroom would have suited your child. I wasn't at school in the 80s but judging by some of the MN threads that periodically come around, I am not sure that 80s teaching/discipline methods would have suited a sensitive, emotional child, and I think that the way autistic children tend to see fairness can be different from the way that neurotypical teachers often see it, and a child getting upset because something didn't go the way they expected or because they perceived something as unfair could be taken as disrespectful.

In june 2024, the BMA said 1 in 100 children have a diagnosis. They were concerned it was being under diagnosed and there is a big waiting list.

The government's strategy is based on 700,000 people (adults and children,) having a diagnosis but we know 200k people are on the pathway to diagnosis and they believe that numbers should really be over a million.

I think a lot of people use nd to cover a lot of conditions and suspected conditions and possibly just some autistic traits, so numbers look higher than they are.

But we didn’t cope. We had to twist and turn ourselves into something we are not.

Imagine going to work or school each day and having to act like someone who spoke 5 languages fluently. You know you don’t but you keep yourself small and in the background hoping no one notices you, trying to copy what others did and said. The knowledge that you don’t speak 5 languages and if you drew attention to yourself then you would be found out and the feeling of humiliation that would bring

You know that this lie will be found out at some stage. As keeping up the lie is exhaustng and at that point you know your life will crumble.

Getting the assessment and realising that you aren’t the same as others around you is ok.
I think today the recognition that without support many people would not exist or we would waste our life trying to fit in and being something we are not