To think perhaps my son isn’t autistic but instead modern society is too challenging for him to cope with.

[SpinningTops]

My son is 7 and on the long waiting list for an autism assessment.

Sometimes I wonder whether he would cope absolutely fine if he was an 80s or 90s child. Maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but modern life seems so chaotic and jam packed, so much to learn at school etc.

He’s in a small class at school and seeing the number of children struggling, so many with ‘special jobs’ to just get them into the classroom, makes me think something is wrong with the system rather than all these children being neurodiverse. And this is an absolutely wonderful school which outwardly he says he loves.

It’s just something I’ve been thinking more and more about recently …

I think this is touching on what I mean. It’s difficult to put your finger on what’s so much more overstimulating but this is a great example.

So with this, my son notices every detail, so he will be looking at the header, maybe counting to 60 to see whether he can time himself accurately to the minute changing on the clock and just generally being distracted.

Interestingly he tells me he rushes through his school work so he’s allowed to sit quietly reading whilst others continue.

As someone who is ND (diagnosed ADHD but I suspect AuADHD - not been diagnosed) modern life is way way more difficult to cope with. It has a rigidity and pace that’s impossible to cope with. At school (80s/early 90s) I was possibly just a little quirky. Now I’d definitely be diagnosed and probably have all sorts of special measures to cope with things.

There’s nothing wrong with ND, it just doesn’t fit well into modern life I think most of the symptoms are the stress of this

Imho it's the mildly ADHD who got caught on screens extremely (bit wuirky, bit disruptive, still ok most of the time id that makes sense, like me). NT people have issues, so if you are even step off, it becomes a problem.
I waa diagnosed with ADHD in 90s as a kid. After a lot of work with my parents and doctors (no meds) I was basically better functioning than "normal" people.
Screens and instant gratification are a problem as you say. My concentration is so much worse.

Plus, the world is so noisy and distracting now. Studies do support that the world got noisier. Everything is shouting, everything is flashing. Modern world is occasionally very much an attack on most senses. I watched some kid's series with nieces and nephews. Why is everyone in it shouting? Ours were mute or normal volume talking. Actually calming. It starts early.

Mine was diagnosed in secondary. I’m absolutely not convinced. Traits, yes. But full diagnosis, nope. And I think they’d not have had any bother when schools weren’t so autocratic.

Op I agree with you there is something overwhelming about schools. I think I'm NT but I am dyslexic

I think its the classrooms are smaller. Less space between groups. The bright chairs not boring gray. It just seems busier.

Same with shops. I hate Asda and M&S food shops. I avoid when possible. I don't mind Tesco or Sainsburys.
I think its asiles are narrow and too busy. Bit like schools, just too busy.

I think we were happier just to let children fail at school and just describe them as bad, fidgety, away with the fairies, slow etc and then they'd head off to work younger not having learned much.

I think there is something about 'screens" but not tv, specifically doom scrolling tiktok/YouTube and certain games that are carefully designed to attention grab, combined with lack of sleep which could mimic adhd and cause anxiety..

It's an inate brain difference
It's both, but I believe the expansive increase in the last few years is due to the other factor whilst the numbers that are caused by chemical imbalances remain stable.

Why do you write that? I’m in my late 50s and as far as I’m concerned what my DS17 is expected to do/get through is way more than what I experienced in the 80s. I’m not talking about parental expectations, but societal and school expectations.

He is bombarded with emails from school, unis, his sport organisation. I just turned up to activities. We had paper letters to take home which were far easier to deal with than scrolling around trying to find emails. The whole thing is just more, more, more.

I think unless a person has severe autism they could have probably got by in life reasonably well in the past. But not now, everything is so chaotic and complicated with demands in every aspect of life. Even schools now are so rigid with so many rules, specific ways of doing things, a rushed busy curriculum, jam packed calendar of events and trips, so many passwords and log ins to remember for online learning. Even I as a NT adult find it overwhelming.

I wonder, with your updates, if it's that there is more about modern life that 'triggers' people with autism rather than people having a normal reaction to sensory bombardment.
You're right about the magazines, we didn't have that in my day. There was less to 'nag' our parents for.
With my own kids though I could tell them no and once they got to school age it was no big deal. Not because I'm some amazing parent but because they were/are neurotypical. I would suggest if this causes absolute scenes with a 7 year old there may well be more at play than a neuro typical child wanting something they can't have.

In my capacity as an HE first year course lead I’ve advised many a student who is struggling to get off as much online stuff as possible. Walk in the park and read a book. Quieten all this ‘noise’ of modern life.

OP, do as much as you can to quieten his life. But I don’t think you’re wrong .

I think the modern world definitely affects children so much more.
My son is nearly 3 and has some delays, perhaps autistic I don't know yet, he has been recently referred.
But when my son watches tv he stims, runs around in circles and he cannot focus at all.
When he's screen free you think he's 💯 normal development to such an extent that his nursery manager was confused as to whether to refer him.
He was screen free all summer, and when he went back, she said he's completely different, social, engaged, started talking,
And I allowed the tv to back in, and she then said a few weeks later, I might as well refer just in case, and for the last few weeks hes been screen free again
And she keeps saying how focused and social he is again.
I hear in America they are looking into virtual autism but I haven't heard much talk in the UK about that.
I'm inclined to think that children with autism are just affected way more by screens and yet somehow they are the ones who seem to use screens the most!

Everything is shouting, everything is flashing. Modern world is occasionally very much an attack on most senses
This over and over. We are harassed almost 24/24 by noise at decibel levels that especially small brains can cope with.

The constant shouting, screeching, loud music...which leads to the vicious circle of upping it up compared to others. Adults have grown used to it and so do kids....except that inside, their brains are shouting that they can't cope.

I think the presumption of mainstream here in scotland has made things much worse. The level of need in classes is getting higher each year. Children with severe behaviour issues, non verbal etc. Our primary have had to install new security to stop kids escaping because they are high risk for bolting, climbing etc.

Huge resources are going to a few very high need individuals leaving very little support for the other children with ASN. Years ago my autistic child would have been in a special school. Now they are one of the forgotten ones struggling in mainstream with no support due to higher needs children that constantly disrupt learning. It's a system that doesn't benefit anyone.

I gather part of the reason is that therr are so many high medical needs children surviving that wouldn't have in the past. So special schools are full of very complex needs and everyone gets pushed up a level.

I'll also say secondary schools dictating that kids must always wear blazers is nuts and probably doesn't help kids either.

I remember kids carrying them because they didn't like wearing them, or just general comfort of being too hot.
I dred my youngest going to secondary. I think I'm doing well if he'll put a fleece on.

You are completely wrong.ADHD is under diagnosed and under treated in this country as highlighted by the NHS ADHD task force. It’s a national disgrace.

www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

Yes . The education system plus the almost complete loss of child freedom plays a role.

Just one example...erosion of playtime breaks and the stripping of play from year 1 and 2....

Children dont get to physically move enough ! They are forced to sit still too much and focus for toonlong on formal learning each day

This is why we have a massive mh crisis among all children and of course Nd kids struggle even more

Year 6 for example. Incredibly stressful snd pressured for schools teachers and all children despite there being no need for this at all..sats literally ruin the last year of primary. Out of 32 children some hugely struggle in the busy stressed classroom but no resources to give them separate spaces and pressure to get them through sats

My 11 year old is autistic. She desperately wants to be at mainstream secondary but the one size fits all approach is absolutely impossible for her.

Within 3 weeks of starting secondary she is unable to attend!! Its horrific for her and for us

I actually dont know what her options would nave been 25 years ago i dont think ahe would ever have coped

But the strict rigidity of the day the lack of breaks or any flexibility. Make it impossible for many kids

I think something can be an innate brain difference and yet also be either a disability or neutral/useful depending on the environment. To me the "severity" of ASD/ADHD/ND conditions is essentially a question of "how many environments that actually exist in the world could this person still function in", which isn't a pure spectrum as it varies by the person and their needs/preferences.

I think my brain works differently from other people's but I've been very lucky to have had my life structured in a way that usually minimises any effects. Only very occasionally I get out of this routine and realise how very much it is helping me.

You’re talking like people are neatly divided into those with ‘special, neurodiverse’ brains and then hyper-efficient, always happy, always socially confident ‘neurotypicals’. It just isn’t like that. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the world is divided into these 2 types of brains, it’s just a sort of accepted ‘explanation’ which has deeply ingrained itself over the last 10 years without evidence and now to query it is wrongthink.

I can’t think of a single person I know who considers themselves neurotypical, it’s generally just how well they mask their inability to cope in front of others. Everyone I know looks to perfect social media posts and goes ‘why can’t I be like that? Why is life so easy for them? Why am I always the odd one out? I must be neurodiverse’, when actually those posts are just a curated fantasy and the poster is usually chaos behind the scenes.

Just to add noisy world also affects public's MH considerably. Stress levels, depression etc. And physical health.
Imagine what it does to developing baby brain...

Its a complex dance of cause and effect

I work with autistic kids and I also do think there is some ovwr diagnosis of both autism and adhd

Adhd in particular. It might not be at clinically noticeable levels if a child was able to move and play freely for large parts of their day rather than sat in a chair for 6 hours a day at 5 years old.

It doesnt mean it isn't real or doesnt need supporting. But quite clearly a 6 or 7 year old being expected to behave like a working adult at school is likely to display adhd like behaviour sometimes when struggling to do this . And yes some children will simply not cope at all.

We are placing the burden on the child saying they are the one to fix rather than pointing out how ridiculous expectations are of small children (and of big children!!)

It's called flow. It's the same reason they can play video games for ages. ADD people are more susceptible to it, but it works on everyone really. Pokie machines are a prime example and that's why they are so lethal for people with gambling problems compared to a lottery.

I’m a Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist and I think about this a lot. There has likely always been children with autistic traits, but they would have likely have managed or even thrived in previous generations and environments. I now see children in so much distress, frequently unable to leave their house or even their bedrooms

There is now so much sensory overload, so many cars, planes, lights and music everywhere, no proper darkness that helps regulate sleep and so many new people to get used to.

If you think back to even 50-years-ago, children would have seen a fraction of different people, would have been outside most of the day, which would regulate from a sensory/OT perspective and would be in school with people who live in their neighbourhood. Life would be much more predictable and routine based and easier to manage if neurodivergent. Even food was much less sensory and similar and not an overwhelming amount of choice and difference

When I previously worked with older adults, so many had left school at 13 and still made a career, bought a house and had a family and lived very routine based lives. You could tell from interests and routine that many had autistic or ADHD traits, but had coped and never needed a diagnosis. In comparison, there are so many more demands today and many children seem unable to cope with the modern pressures of school and the sensory overload of modern life

That's the thing though. The lively bustling bright classroom with ever-changing activities that suits many young children and keeps them engaged can be overwhelming for children with autism. The very plain calm routine structured traditonal classroom actually suited a lot of children on the autism spectrum. Even sitting at separate desks in rows facing forwards, rather than groups facing each other at fluid "tables", was easier for many of them. There might have been hell in the playground but that's a different matter and in the old days no-one cared.

And yes we used to just punish or abandon the children who didn't fit in. It was changing slowly when I was at school in the 1960s but not all of the changes turned out beneficial for everyone.

There is under diagnosis not over diagnosis.