To think perhaps my son isn’t autistic but instead modern society is too challenging for him to cope with.

[SpinningTops]

My son is 7 and on the long waiting list for an autism assessment.

Sometimes I wonder whether he would cope absolutely fine if he was an 80s or 90s child. Maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but modern life seems so chaotic and jam packed, so much to learn at school etc.

He’s in a small class at school and seeing the number of children struggling, so many with ‘special jobs’ to just get them into the classroom, makes me think something is wrong with the system rather than all these children being neurodiverse. And this is an absolutely wonderful school which outwardly he says he loves.

It’s just something I’ve been thinking more and more about recently …

I sometimes think that my son is like those bears you see at the zoo who pace around their enclosure or chew their paws/ pull out their own hair/ are violent and there’s a sign up which says something about how the bear is working with the animal psychologist and has an enriched enclosure and you know that the only thing wrong with the bear is that it’s in captivity.

I don't think screens are a problem as much as the devices behind them, and in particular internet- the internet is both a dream and a nightmare for someone with ADHD and/or autism. I enjoy being able to access information and entertainment, but I'm aware it allows me to jump between tabs in a way that indulges my inability to concentrate. Sometimes when I'm tired and I don't want to force myself to focus then it's fine, fun even, but when I do want to focus it's a real barrier.

But screens alone I have no issue with. My kindle is great and far from addictive, and I like the routine of live programmed television. It's the different devices which can exacerbate issues.

Yes, humans are animals. We did not evolve to deal with modern life, we evolved to live in small hunter gatherer groups in the wilderness.

Of course there's loads of wonderful things about modern life, but also a lot that is simply not designed with us in mind.

Take noise pollution - it has severe negative effects on human health and yet we have noise everywhere. Sirens, traffic, beeping toys, loud music played without headphones etc. Sure, many people with autism are especially sensitive to noise but it's actually bad for everybody and just worse for them.

Same with many other aspects of daily life. They don't actually suit anybody e.g. expecting kids to sit still for hours at a time in school. The inherent problems with that are most noticeable with kids with ADHD but it's actually bad for everyone.

I am a teacher and I agree with you. I think back to twenty or so years ago and think that school was more accessible. The pace was slower. That was more focus on making learning fun. Teachers had more freedom to plan activities that would suit their class. Kids were happier and schools were more inclusive.

And doesn't come close to explaining why autism and ADHD clusters in families!

I actually think that there is an element of truth in this because classrooms today are packed PowerPoint slides, video clips, loads of noise and busy conversations. When I was at school things were much calmer and slower, more hands on tasks and less distractions. As a teacher I try not to overwhelm students but pressure to teach in certain ways and get things done isn’t creating a great environment sometimes.

Wrote the almost same thing then read your post! But absolutely what I think!

I don't agree with that. I think we let children down and justify it as 'teaching resilience' ie it's like some kind of hyperfocus. Children are resilient, teenagers are resilient, adults are resilient. It's just not infinite.

It was worse in the 80s and 90s, I was a neurodiverse child and treated like a freak, not just by the other kids but the adults too.

Just because there were less diagnoses, doesn't mean there were less kids suffering.

I think the school environment is very challenging for a lot of young people.
So do you try and change the child or the environment?
If you had a beautiful plant that loved the sun but planted it in the shade it wouldn't thrive.
You would change the environment for the plant.
But when it comes to school the tendency is to force the child to adapt, no matter what cost to that child.
I don't know how much longer we can go on pretending one style of teaching in one style of environment is working, and that the ones that are struggling have failed in some way.
We are failing them by this ludicrous narrow minded mindset.

I relate a lot to what you're saying, my daughter is six and has a lot of sensory sensitivities, meltdowns and at times has hated going to school. School say she is very quiet (she isn't) and have spoken to us about her anxiety.

Given more freedom, choice & control in the weekends, school holidays etc. she is much, much happier and more chill.

I think I am very similar to her but my childhood was zero pressure, we basically didn't do anything except play out with neighbourhood friends, watch tv, and see my nan?! No restaurants, clubs, etc. School felt easy even though I had no friends. Life was just chill so I had nothing to worry about. I think we put too much pressure on them and they don't have enough time for free play.

Modern life is over-stimulating and there's plenty wrong with the education system, but that doesn't mean autistic kids aren't autistic. Also, schools and life in the 70s, 80s and even 90s weren't exactly kind in many ways to those who didn't fit in or behave typically.

I've taught in secondary schools for 30 years, so I've witnesssd the massive increase in the diagnosis, acceptance and support of ND students, though obviously that doesn't mean it's consistent or sufficient in all schools.

I completely agree!

Personally I dont think it's screens. ADHD and autism existed long before screens did.....also whoever pointed out people with ADHD apparently have no issues focusing on screens-you do know we also experience HYPER FOCUS as well right? So the ADHD brain actually does have the capacity to hyperfoucs, especially if it's something that gives a nice rush of dopamine (which shirt form media certainly does-its the instant gratification feeling). Obv back before that existed it could have been books or certain topics etc.

I do agree that life is certainly, louder, brighter and busier than it used to be. Personally I've ended up having to get Loop ear plugs as the sensory overload got so bad I couldn't function at least with them it cuts out the background noise which helps with the overstimulation and being able to concentrate a bit better.

I wouldn't say it was easier in the 90s. In fact I'll straight out say as a woman it was 100x harder, simply because the only kind of ADHD/autism that existed was based entirely on the symptoms boys presented as a really the only studies ever done on either were very very heavily generally based and essentially just based on how boys behaved.

And even then, looking back I can clearly remember the kids who did have the outwardly disruptive behaviour but it was always just out down to bad behaviour (which now with more understanding of ND conditions would be recognised as symptoms). But the for the majority of girls there was basically a tiny tiny chance anyone would even have cotemplated them being ND, especially as for one, a lot of girls with autism became very very good as masking (more so than boys) and also a hell of a lot of girls were displaying symptoms of predominantly INATTENTIVE ADHD either without the hyperactivity, or as we now understand with the hyperactivity mainly being confined to their brains (you know having a brain that NEVER EVER STOPS). they didn't even know back then that there as more than one type (now broken down into Predominantly Hyperactive, Predominantly Inattentive or if you're lucky like me you get the joy of the Combined type 🫠)

There is a huge genetic component to Austin and ADHD (and also other conditions like dyslexia/dyspraxia) which is why you end up seeing families with more than one kid who has it (and when you dig a bit deeper usually realise either one of both parents have symptoms) . In fact I think that's why so many women in their 30s (who have kids that are being diagnosed because we test and recognise it more) often have a lightbulb moment doing their kids being assessed where they realise "holy shit....this is me...this is how I've thought and behaved all my life that I just assumed was normal" and that can be what prompts then to be assessed themselves.

I disagree wholly that ADHD is being overdiagnosed and anyone who disagreed I strongly suggest you read both parts 1 and part 2 of the NHS England commissioned ADHD taskforce to learn the ACTUAL facts and statistics.

Part 1: NHS England » Report of the independent ADHD Taskforce: Part 1 https://share.google/oMzTl7Z1skO9Eh5FD

Part 2: NHS England » Report of the independent ADHD Taskforce: Part 2 https://share.google/UGl3yKwjlpzZUyGZ2

Also for ADHD medication (which actually is one of the most studied and reached and also classed as one as the most effective medications given it helps the majority of those who take it) you NEED to have an diagnosis to access it. And it's honestly certainly for me changed my life for the better. I said earlier that for me the "hyperactivity" is mostly in my brain-well is till vividly remember ten first day I took my mediction-my brain was quiet. I mean...silent. peaceful. For the first time in my entire life it was calm. Suddenly things which I had spent my whole life struggling with, became easier to do. I liken it to playing your entire life in hard mode and then realising that with meds you're now playing it in normal mode. Its not a cure, but a good tool to help you cope better and function better.

There are legitimate reasons that more children with SEN are being born (not saying any of these apply in OP's case).
More EDCs and microplastics in the environment.
Stress on mothers while baby in womb : modern life is increasingly stressful and people are reporting increased stress, especially women.
Older mothers more common which increases risk.
Also we can save more premature babies which is obviously wonderful but does mean that they're more likely to have SEN.

This is a perfect example of why your child does in fact need a diagnosis. So he can be understood as autistic instead of lacking resilience.

This. We have no choice but to cram in so much even though we hate it.

That’s a powerful image. I agree that does seem to be the case for a lot of children. If they could they’d be scaling the walls to escape (and some can and do).

DS is also autistic. He was sent home early today due to flooding and cried for about two hours because he couldn’t do something he’d been promised at school. He screamed and screamed for me to take him back (he’s 8) even though I explained school was locked and not even the teachers were there. It’s not a resilience issue, it’s a perception and emotional processing issue. Edited to add I was told by the head at DSs last school that he just needs to develop some resilience, plus quite a few other incredibly ignorant things. We moved schools and he has soared. They don’t even notice he’s autistic because the focus is very much more holistic and child centred. Best decision we ever made.

It would be really nice if children could be fully supported as they are without needing to go through a process of diagnosis. The school telling children one thing and then doing another drives me insane as it really upsets my daughter and is so needless. That's not a resilience issue, that's a trust issue. It teaches children they can't trust adults and children do take that message from it. So - totally understand a diagnosis is helpful in many many circumstances and I'm not advocating for not pursuing it- wouldn't it just be nice for children to be in environments where adults followed through on what they say as standard, instead of needing an individual diagnosis to understand why some children might really struggle when they don't.

I don't think there's any evidence for this. It doesn't make much sense. What about those of us who get diagnosed in our 50s, 60s or 70s? Tbe only screens we had when growing up were TVs yet we had ADHD. I'm pretty sure DM has ADHD and she was born in the 1940s. Her family got their first TV after she had left home:

What we do know is that it is inherited. So when children get diagnosed, parents TW d to the also seek out a diagnosis.

But I suspect most of us know that we are very different in our behaviours now because of social media than we used to be.

I am in my mid 50s. I can spend hours and hours on mums net, facebook and instagram just scrolling through rubbish that makes no difference to my life and means I don't then do other things. This then puts me under pressure in other areas of my life, affects the amount of time I spend on other things whether that is keeping on top of laundry/paperwork/my job/returning things to shops etc.

Then I look at stuff online too that affirms my suspicions that I might have ADHD because it talks about procrastination and leaving things until the last minute, letting laundry mount up, not keeping on top of paperwork, struggling at work with deadlines, missing things because I'm not organised, being late for things etc etc.

My behvaviours are changed because I can't focus properly, I get distracted, I start one thing and then a million other things are constantly popping into my head because Im used to the ten second hit of distraction form scrolling on instagram.

This affects me in this way and Im an adult and generally regarded as a very competent one. I was born in the seventies and didn't even have a mobile until my mid twenties. The effect on the developing brain of a child must be massive.

I agree to some extent but I think people with adhd fill their brains with other things regardless and did before screens. I’m late 50s andc late diagnosed with autism and ADHD. All my children have both via the NHS and severe mental heath difficulties.

We didn’t even have a tv for most of my time growing up and I was born in the 60s. I wasn’t on screens as I child but my busy brain and day dreaming was out of control. I was hyper focused on my autism special interests too. I was far more disorganised than now. I was dreadful at uni. I’ve learnt techniques and went on an nhs adhd treatment course that has helped somewhat. I’m too scared to have the meds they suggested.

I am trying really hard not to reach for my phone first thing( failed miserably today) and yes it can help with mornings when I’m slightly more chilled and maybe the day( I need to try it out more)but I’m still disorganised- heaps of things I can’t find on the floor, inability to make decisions about what to wear, eat, lost keys, glasses, watch , restless, struggling to focus, fidgeting etc. I was like this before all the way through life pre screens.

I do doom scroll too much to relax ( ironic because I’m not sure it’s relaxation conducive) but would simply fill my time with other special interests,
day dreaming and be late like I did previously without I suspect. I do mean to fully test it though.

I do wonder about the white screen on all day in schools and the impact on MH from doom scrolling. I had MH difficulties but nothing like my dc’s. They have had serious mental illness aand I mean really serious.They are battling through and making progress but I often wonder why my difficulties weren’t as serious. Is it the impact of phones and modern life on their MH that is the difference? I’m not sure kids would get away with the amount of day dreaming I did and I absolutely hate shops, public transport etc now even more than I did before as a child. Is that because everywhere is do much more busy and full on?

I find the discussion interesting but I think it’s important not to fall down the MH abelist incorrect rabbit hole saying ND is over diagnosed and it’s just down to a modern day lack of resilience.

I am not autistic and went to school in the 70s and 80s. There was a staggering intolerance of difference, from race to sexuality, and prejudice was everywhere. I don’t think it would be much fun for a child with ASD or adhd there at all.

Yes it does. You can have a predisposition to something that then needs a trigger to manifest.

I don't see why you seem so disbelieving. We know for example that older mothers are more likely to have children with autism. Why is it such a leap to think other aspects of pregnancy (diet, stress...) play a role?

It's not just wild speculation either. There have been studies done. Google it and you'll find lots of research links.