DP nephew and our new baby

[Girlmummyxox]

Hello

Opinions have been mixed about this so pleade be kind if im being unreasonable. I dont have much experince with autism and its my first baby. So DP nephew is 19 and severely autistic. I say severely as he relies on parents for everything, cannot look after himself and has the mind of a child. I mean no offence by any of this.

He has a bigger brother (not autisitc) and three younger cousins. My little girl is the youngest in the family by quite a bit (dp started family later in life).

Let me say first that nephew is a lovely boy. I genuinely love listening to his movie facts and hearing how passionate he is about games.

Anyway, since our little girl was born (5 months now), he has been.. i cant think of any other word, obsessed with her. Whenever we visit or meet up he has to be the person holding her. When he holds her, he rubs his face all over her and strokes her body. Ive taken her off him before because I find it all a bit creepy. A word me and DP have bickered about. His family encourage him holding her all the time and take lots of pictures of this. DP thinks its because he is unlikely to have a family of his own and they like seeing how happy and gentle he is with a baby. Whenever he gets too close I have started telling him to give her space and sometimes ive taken her back. He has started telling his mum that im giving him into trouble. He sits and just stares at her while being inches from her face. And sometimes kisses her all over, me and dp tell.him to stop. He also always tries taking her from my arms to "show her something" in another room which is usually a laser light or disco ball (she loves colours and movement) but i refuse to let him take her and go with him, while holding her. Why should I? He is a vulnerable adult. As if im letting him take her in another room, alone.
He has now started saying "does she love me??" If we say yes, he gets happy and tries rubbing faces and whispering "i love you too, pretty girl". I dont know, I feel awful as I type all of this but its weird in my opinion.

My issue? Well its crossing boundaries, also I dont want to enable behaviour and id like to set boundaries and expectations now. If my daughter came to me in a few years time telling me another adult was doing this, id be furious. Dp said he understands why I think what I think but his nephew lives in another world and means no harm. He said he doesn't feel the need to speak to his sister as it'll cause offence and what would he even say. Id like him to tell her that she needs to speak to her son about boundaries because it isn't okay.

She has gotten to the age now where she doesn't like being held all the time but this makes him annoyed as she "isn't close to him" he tries to force it until I tell him no. He doesn't like cries and will put his fingers in his ears and shouts "lalalalala" until he is ushered out of the room. They have offered to look after our daughter on so many occasions to let me and my partner go out but its just isnt going to happen.

Partner thinks im unreasonable. Am I?

Thans

Yes, it's depressing and distressing in equal parts.

This completely OP - your feelings are totally valid and indeed I would say 100% trust them, it's the only way you are going to feel, and know, that, going forwards you have done the right thing for your DD. At the end of the day that has to be your only criteria.

Random but could you buy nephew a baby doll - one of those ultra realistic ones, do you think that would work for him, his own baby to cuddle?

I take ableist to mean discriminating against those with disabilities. Unless Im incorrect, how the hell am I discriminating 🤣 if it was any adult id be reacting the same. Actually no, I wouldnt have allowed it to go on aslong as I have. Id be branding any man without disabilities as a werido and to stay away from my child if they did anything I have listed above.

I personally would flip it and stop talking/labelling about your DP's nephew's behaviour, but talk about your DD's needs and boundaries. As you've mentioned, it is not OK for her to have to endure this behaviours, at any age, as it isn't respectful of her boundaries and her needs (all I read in your OP is how it make your DP nephew happy or sad, but no one but you is actually pointing out how it makes your DD feel). Keep advocating for her, you are her voice and her protection until she learns to use her own. In your shoes, I would not care about others, even family, calling me a bitch or unreasonable or whatever. Focus on your baby's need like you're doing. Your DP's nephew's needs aren't yours (or your DD's!) to solve.

I don't want to buy him a baby doll. Thats his parents job. My job is to protect my baby. Oh your behaviour is inappropriate with my baby but here is a fake one to do it to?

Totally agree! That's for his parents to deal with, not you.

Thank you.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback/views. I am reading each and every one.

You are absolutely right to advocate for your daughter. Don’t let anyone in real life tell you you’re being unreasonable.

I wouldn’t want any adult rubbing their face and hands all over my baby or kissing her repeatedly and trying to take her out of arms. It needs to stop and it’s up to you and DH to set the boundaries now.

I find your posts quite odd OP you flip between being reasonable (e.g. having your boundaries, being clear for your DD) to flipping to being quite nasty with some of your assumptions and still referring to him as creepy.

FWIW I have been in your shoes my friends son is severely autistic and he took a love in both DS's he was 14 when eldest was born.
The difference was the way handled it with my friend. I would never in a million years call her son creepy as he's not. He's genuinely happy and loves my children. He has the mental capacity of a 3-4 year old but towers over me.

That doesn't mean that boundaries weren't put in place, my children were not manhandled etc or he was left alone at any point with them. Of course not just like I wouldn't leave my 3 year old on his own with a baby.

Of course your DD comes first as does being clear on boundaries. But there are ways to go about it which are clear but understandable for him but also your DPs family which isn't lumping him into a category or using degrading language for what is a developmental disability.

Your baby your rules. I would definitely avoid the use of the word creepy many autistic people are very affectionate and love babies and younger children purely as the interaction is easier for them than dealing with adults where they can struggle to deal with expectations, read expressions, understand sarcasm etc. Just model to him how the baby likes to be interacted with as a starting point

Is it ableist to not want a man constantly rubbing his face all over your baby?

Does he have the mind of a toddler if he's telling you about movies and facts etc?
Maybe he has the mind of a slightly older child?
Anyway, listen to your gut

It’s not appropriate. He may struggle to understand what we would consider appropriate social interactions and touching due to his autism; that is not his fault. That does not, however, mean that everyone around him has to accept behaviour that crosses appropriate safe boundaries just because he’s autistic. It’s okay to say no, that’s not acceptable and put a boundary in place on behalf of your children.

This is not the same thing, but illustrates the same principle. I have a family member who is (mildly) autistic. He sexually abused his own child. The argument by the family is that he is autistic and doesn’t understand appropriate social cues and boundaries. Firstly, he’s able to function perfectly well in day to day social interactions, went to uni, had a long and successful career in investment banking making £200k+ a year - he darn well knows that we don’t sexually abuse our own children.

But secondly, even if he didn’t, the onus is not on the child to tolerate being touched in a way that is inappropriate or makes them uncomfortable, just because someone struggles with social interaction due to autism. It’s okay to firmly and kindly set a boundary for your child.

Well......surely better he's clinging onto to and rubbing his face all over a doll than trying to continue you to do it to your daughter with you saying No and your DH and nephew's parents saying "oh let him it's fine" 🤔

Those of us suggesting it just thought that might be the easier way - if your DD's presence has awoken some paternal instinct it may well be easier to redirect it rather than you thinking it will just disappear if you keep saying No. It may well not.

I don't think he is intending anything creepy. It sounds like nuzzling her is how he is showing affection. That said, there is no reason he can't learn to show affection appropriately. I wouldn't let him take her to another room either, especially as he has a meltdown if she cries. It sounds like supervision is necessary.

The most important thing here is your DD and the lessons you want to teach her about bodily autonomy and not having to let people into her space when she's uncomfortable, so she doesn't upset them. She needs to know what kind of touch is okay and what isn't. Nuzzling might be okay when she's a brand new baby but not as she gets older.

You are right to enforce those boundaries for everyone, no exceptions, and there's no reason he can't learn to show his affection in an appropriate way.

My son has similar needs. You are wrong to call him creepy, he has no idea what he is doing is not appropriate. You are absolutely not wrong to insist on boundaries being put in place. If he lacks capacity which it sounds he does the adults around him should be ensuring boundaries are in place.

Eh? You can’t make a comparison between a neurotypical adult male and one with severe autism! Surely you understand that! Of course that behaviour would be interpreted differently in a neurotypical man. I would not label any of the things you’ve described as “creepy” when they come from a young man with severe autism. Context is everything! He won’t understand what is socially appropriate because of his disability, you seem to struggle with understanding that. No one is saying you have to allow it, but you could show some understanding. No wonder your dp isn’t happy with your language about his nephew.

Indeed! The whole "he doesn't understand/mean it that way/mean any harm" stuff is irrelevant, imo, to how it makes the other party feel - we can't ask her because she's 5 months old but she is aware of her surroundings and feeling happy/sad/scared/overwhelmed etc.

Not meaning to cause harm isn't at all the same as not causing harm.

To say the concern OP is expressing is ableist is just bollocks.

If his mental capacity is still of a toddler, I wonder if getting a baby doll would help? Sounds strange but it's what my mum did when she had her 2nd child, the doll was for the 1st child. They'd both bathe their 'babies' together, hold them, cuddle. My eldest brother loved caring and copying mum apparently. Mum did it because she heard it could stop jealousy and she was worried that may be a thing with her eldest.

Ah, ignore my post, see others have said same and OP not interested.

The family are used to building all the support and care around your nephew but you and your daughter are not part of his support network. Your daughter is the priority here over his feelings. I have two daughters and would not have allowed the actions you describe at all no matter the circumstances. You are her mother, your instinct is right and needs to be honoured. Women and girls are not there to placate and support men’s feelings.

I think the problem is that you and DP are the only ones setting boundaries here. DP needs to speak to his family about your boundaries and that they must also ensure the nephew adheres to them, or he won’t be allowed to hold her. Get DP to try and distract him with other things while he’s there to stop him being obsessed with DD.

Psychos using autism to justify their crimes is completely different and should not be allowed to be used to mediate public opinion! The poor child who deserves justice. See greg Wallace

This isnt the same at all though, and can be sorted by appropriate actions taken by the adults around him to protect the baby and allow a safe appropriate relationship

Its gone too far and I doubt the op's attitude towards him has helped much

Yes, this! Why are so many defending a man’s desire to inappropriately touch a baby girl? The mind boggles

I think its important to flag if it was an autistic woman doing this i dont think the responses on this thread would really be any different / i certainly wohld still find it wildly inappropriate / not okay.

I have a family member who is (mildly) autistic. He sexually abused his own child. The argument by the family is that he is autistic and doesn’t understand appropriate social cues and boundaries. Firstly, he’s able to function perfectly well in day to day social interactions, went to uni, had a long and successful career in investment banking making £200k+ a year - he darn well knows that we don’t sexually abuse our own children.

I'm sure you'll totally agree but this is just a paedophile who happens to have Aspergers imo.