All of my children have now moved abroad

[Mamsiet4]

I have 4 adult DC, DS1 is 27 and lives in Frankfurt, DD1 is 25 and lives in Geneva, DS2 is 24 and lives in Luxembourg and DD2 is 22 and just announced she is moving to Amsterdam in January. There father who I divorced from 15 years ago was from Switzerland so they all have the right to live and work in the EU with few restrictions and I appreciate that right now there isn’t massive appeal to staying in the UK, however it has really upset me. For various reasons I struggle with travel now, one being 3 years ago I sold my London property and moved back up north after spending over 30 years in London to care for my parents, this just limits the ease of travel to an extent. Caring for my parents also means I can’t just hop on a plane, I need to arrange other care for them first which isn’t always easy as my only sibling has a disabled child she is the sole carer of. I also struggle with fatigue and chronic joint pain now so struggle with travel more than I did before.
Of my 3 children who already live abroad I already struggle to meet up with them. Other than Christmas it is impossible for me to arrange to see them all at once as they are all so busy with their own lives. Sometimes I can catch two of them at once but that takes so much planning. Adding in a 4th isn’t going to make it any easier I know that for sure. I also just can’t arrange enough care for my parents or really afford to go on 4 different trips a year just to see each of them twice and that’s not even a certainty as lately one has always been missing from Christmas, either with their dad or their partners family.
This has made me really sad, my sister is now a grandma and I see how close she is to her grandchildren, realistically I will never have this. I can’t imagine most of them will move home ever, DD1 certainly won’t, I can’t imagine DS1 will, harder to tell for DS2 or DD2 but I’d guess unlikely. I will also never have the option of just moving to be closer to any of them as I don’t have an EU passport.
I also don’t feel I have anyone to talk to about it, my parents are frail and elderly now so I would never concern them with my worries, I can’t talk to my sister as anytime I mention my children she just tells me I need to just be grateful I have 4 children who are capable of independence (she has 2 disabled one who needs 24 hour care and another who needs a lot of support to live independently, so I do sympathise that my issue do seem insulting to her). I have some friends but they all have children locally and will be involved grandparents when the time comes.
I do speak to my children often, about once a week and we have a family group chat which is active most days, however some of these conversations I’m finding much harder, such as DD1 sharing the baby name list she made with her partner made me realise that I will likely only see these grandchildren once or twice a year if/when they arrive.

AIBU to be so sad about this? Does anyone have any advice?

Do they have children yet?

Often there isn’t really a drive for women to move back until after they have kids and they realise how good the UK is in comparison to their home countries for immigrants.

Not just for maternity care / daycare options but also for schools. I send my child to private school and most of his friends’ families returned from Europe because the school systems can be atrocious - ie you can’t complain, it’s only cheap / free for locals or those who meet residence / nationality requirements, cost of private schools of the calibre of the best non-London UK schools is often much higher. Salaries can be lower even in Switzerland. And in some countries there’s often misogyny at play too with the dad’s parents not really helping with childcare for their sons as much as for daughters.

Europeans in cities are also becoming really hostile to all immigrants not just UK ones.

Obviously you can’t guarantee anything but it does make sense for you to be prepared for them to return closer at some point. If not to the UK then definitely to Ireland.

When you have kids abroad you do need to be prepared to make most of the effort - call them regularly, visit them, and if caring for your parents is too much or seems to be blocking your energy to do that then you need to decide if that’s something you can carry on with.

Haha, I think you got the countries the wrong way round. Almost everywhere in Western Europe pay more than the UK and most have better maternal healthcare. School systems and leave pay vary, but the UK is near the bottom for those too. Family support and familiarity are a big deal though.

OP - this has happened in my family. We have all moved away. I think (hope) I can give you some hope, and some practical ideas based on experience. And we had a much longer "commute" as it were as we all moved from South Africa.

For a start, while they are young, you WILL see them less. To be frank, that would probably be true if they lived locally too. When I was younger, yes, I went home to visit most years for a few weeks, but mostly, I was out partying, travelling and having a great time. However, things change as we get older and children come along. When I was 26 and first living in the UK, I wouldn't have had space, or willingness, for my parents to stay with me for more than a night. When DS was born, my parents were here for 6 weeks albeit splitting their time between me and my sister. Ditto my brothers routinely and happily have them staying for a week or more at a time, and we all enjoy going on holiday with them with the grandchildren. They're hands on, and it' slovely to have time with them and when my DC were small it was such a relief to have them with me on the endless soft play/national trust/ sports group circuit! .

Your concerns re your parents care are understandable, but you will need to put that effort in. I would consider at least a once a year "grand tour" - go spend 2-3 days in each of the cities your children live in (or perhaps do two a year - two children each time). Take the opportunity to enjoy getting to see their lives, perhaps do some sightseeing. Take trains to travel between their respective cities so it's easier to get around. Suggest activities or things you'd like to do - with them or alone. In those early years my parents would stay in hotels, with friends etc, but the memories I have is of them taking me for dinner (I was always broke!), or going to shows or doing some shopping with them. I have a lovely memory of a trip down the Thames with them and my best friend, followed by a pub lunch.

Also, while they visited, they never expected us to be at their beck and call constantly. It makes a huge difference whenyou're young not to feel like your parents are relying on you. They'd come and meet me in the city for a drink, or disappear off for the day to Oxford or some other place they wanted to visit. So I didn't feel pressure when they were here.

Trust me, this is a tough time but if you keep communication open, make the effort, over time, you will reap the benefits.

I don’t have any advice as the parent (yet… pretty sure DD will run off the UK as soon as she can) but I’m also a DD that lives elsewhere and I’m from a family in which at least 50% are migrants. We’re spread all over.

I go home about once a year. I used to go a lot more often but it’s expensive and no one wants to visit me here because I’m the UK, which I’ve also started resenting because that means the expense and arrangement continuously falls on me. It makes me sad to see my mother getting visibly older each time, but it is life. Her mother also spent most of her life away from half her children.

On a positive, think long term: you won’t be caring for your parents forever and it’s likely your children will want you more involved as they have children of their own. My best childhood memories by far are from when I was sent abroad to spend summer holidays with my aunts. We have a stronger bond than I have with aunts I saw regularly in my hometown.

My partner is British and it pains me that he’s just not very open to moving. Enjoying in the perks of the EU is a very specific mindset, I suppose. I’d be very proud my children enjoy moving to different places and are so open to the world.

I returned from Europe too so I can categorically say no, it’s not as nice as you think it is. In France my maternity care was atrocious & the hospital tried to blame my thyroid condition for some really poor medical care related outcomes. Bullying (including physical violence) is endemic in French, German state and semi-private schools but private schools are so expensive. In Switzerland you often pay for things you wouldn’t dream of in the UK & salaries aren’t much higher than London even if you consider the tax differences.

Depends what part of Europe really, the part I moved to is far better for maternity and child healthcare and schools.

it is hard, OP, i feel for you.
In my case, i am the one who moved away, i get over when i can to see family, but it is not as often as they would like.

However, we live in a communication age. How do you generally keep in touch with them? And i think you need to let go a bit of the idea of seeing them all together? One at a time often works better with adult DC anyway, IME

Of course.

Its a shame that the children you raised dont make more of an effort.

I don’t think it’s a lack of effort really. For DD1 for example visiting 4 parents (her 2 and her long term partners 2) across 4 different countries, plus her uni friends, plus school friends is already a lot of people to keep up with and it’s across 6 cities. They don’t have endless annual leave and still like to travel for personal fun too. They are just in a situation where both she and her partner have divorced parents and all 4 parents live in different countries.

The place they consider ‘home’ may very well not be the UK. They also may not marry and/or have children with partners that are open to moving to the UK (or are even British citizens).

Switzerland offers the highest salaries in Europe, with the average being over €8000. The average in the UK is approximately half that. It’s also among the best when it comes to healthcare and education.

This. Lucky them. Bloody Brexit curtailed so many young people. Be glad for the opportunities they have.

Bloody Brexit. Switzerland, as described above with its high salaries and exceptional health care and education must be so grateful it didn’t leave the EU.
Oh, no. It never joined in the first place…

You might find the daughters might suddenly want to see a lot more of you when they become mums! I moved 4-5 hours away (within the same country) from my parents when I was in my late 20's and loved travelling and thought nothing of hopping in a car for 5 hours. Once I had children I massively missed my Mum and Dad and totally wished I'd chosen to start a family much much closer to them. We see each other once every 4-6 weeks maybe, my mum came to my rescue a couple of times when suffering with complete exhaustion after my second child, life would have been so much easier if she was a few minutes or up to an hour away. Things might change, or they might find they really must or need to make more of an effort to see you more regularly.

I think this is key.

My dc returned to live near to where he grew up.
He sees lots of old friends quite regularly, as they combine coming home for a weekend to see parents, with seeing their friends over the same time.
There's one lad in the group whose parents divorced whilst he was at University and both moved away from where they grew up.

He doesn't actually live that far away - 75mins (ish), but has to spread himself so much thinner one time visiting his Mum, one time visiting his Dad and one time arranging to come 'home' to stay with one of his mates, to enable him to join them on a night out (or to go somewhere together in the day). It's no-one's fault, but just makes life harder.

Herald : "I have ill parents. Respite care is arranged. Book cheap flights as far in advance as you can to see each child each year and book a room only air b and b near their homes. I don't think the situatuon should be this extreme. How do you think they feel if you don't book individual regular trips to see them?"

Herald Green has managed it. She arranged respite. Booked a flight.

Yes she said it more gently that I did, but the fact remains that she has managed it easily. And said she doesn't think the situation should be "this extreme". Which was exactly what I was saying.

she's not the only poster to question it all.

But @Phobiaphobicsaid my comment was the least helpful ever. 🤣

What are you suggesting, as an alternative?

OP has had lots and lots of really nice posts, supportive. Which is nice. In itself. But what is she actually supposed to DO? If it was that easy she probably wouldn't have posted! She just decides to turn the switch off and not let the whole thing bother her anymore? She lets it go and sees if it changes? (Unlikely). She tried to do practical things to change things? Talk to her dc, arrange more FaceTimes, actually visit more? What else are the practical options?

Surely you’re not denying that Brexit has been detrimental to the UK?
Switzerland is wealthy for several, some very dodgy, reasons. “Neutrality”? Ha!

It does sound as though you’ve made a huge sacrifice moving back up north to care for your parents, and that is something your parents and sister must appreciate deeply. But it is impacting your chance to spend time with your children. Cheaper flights, more connections, from London, more exciting and easier for your children and their partners to visit you, even the Eurostar, I mean I know there are loads of airports everywhere but longer transfers etc and less destinations. And you’ve given up a lot of your own life I guess after 30 years in London. is there any way you would think of trying to get a foot back in the door down in London, and get some help in for your parents, a live in carer or something?

This is a bit out there but if you and your parents all moved to Ireland you could apply for citizenship after 3 years and in the future live in Europe if you wanted…Ireland is part of the common travel area with the UK, sorry, that’s the least helpful suggestion ever I guess, but if there was any chance of moving them, it would kind of be a way to build for your own future so Im just putting it out there. It sounds like it suits everyone to have you there, but it’s not working for you?