Not to tell DH what I'll be discussing at couples therapy

[Artisanshoelace]

I'd like DH and I to visit a therapist together and he has reluctantly agreed on the condition that I tell him in advance, the points I'll be raising (ideally he wants a written list).

In order not to drip feed, I'd like to discuss DH's drinking...which is 6 to 7 bottles of wine and week. He is never abusive and doesn't drink in front of the children (late teens) but his drinking has caused issues with laziness and disruption at home...late meals, not helping around the home etc. Ive tried to tackle this gently but he becomes extremely defensive angry and argumentative when I do. He's not a stupid man so he knows his drinking is a factor in my wanting us to see a therapist.

Other things I'd like to discuss are that he wants me to sell a property I've inherited so that we can move to a larger home (we dont need) with a driveway as our current home is close to a city centre and only has street parking. I love our current house, parking has never been a real issue and im happy here. I want to rent out the property I've inherited and maybe deep down a desire to keep it comes from feeling that one day I might need a place of refuge from DH although the main motivation is that I don't want to move and he's nagging me to do so.

AIBU not to want to present him with a list of topics prior to seeing the therapist ? From experience he will just get angry if I do and start shouting about why my points are invalid.

I think telling him in advance was the right thing to do. You’ve been open and reasonable and willing to work with him in the way he wanted to go about it, and you have given him the chance to do the same, and he’s reacted completely unreasonably. If he’s now refusing to go, it would have been the same if the issues had first been raised with the therapist anyway, except he’d have added in an additional complaint of “being blindsided”.

If he's a horrible man some of the time, the lovely man times are obviously an act. I think you have sone big decisions to make. Can you do therapy on your own?

Your teens will 100% be aware that he has a drinking problem, even if he’s not physically drinking in front of them. I agree with those who suggest getting your own counselling as you are living with, and raising children with, an alcoholic.

This.

OP, he doesn't want to talk or discuss anything. He uses miscommunication as a weapon. My XH did that and it took me many years to realize!! Read about DARVO.

When you talk, does he listen to you and try to reach an agreement? Or does he want you to feel exasperated, give up and do what he wants?

I agree with this.

Also: you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Therapy is not goong to make a difference. The therapist can’t make him talk or listen. Instead the therapy space will become a battlefield and he will either withdraw/sulk or fight with both you and the therapist.

Go to therapy alone to figure out what you really want. Do you want to live with a man who is pickling his brain nightly? Do you want to be wiping his arse when he becomes incontinent? Do you want to watch your children avoid him on holidays?

What do you want out of the therapy?

I’m guessing it is for him to recognise his drinking is a problem and change. He knows this but doesn’t agree or want to change.

I’m struggling to see how therapy can work in this case.

Second this.

Does he accept he is an alcoholic and if so, does he want to do anything about it yet? Until his drink problem is addressed, I suspect there's little point in trying to sort out the other issues if they stem from his drinking. Al-anon might be a good source of support for you in the meantime.

Preserve your assets, you will probably need them.

I think this is very much the position we're in.

Discussions about drinking etc. Routinely turn to arguments....im not wired to argue so just give up almost immediately.

I dont think his kindness is fake...he is routinely very kind and thoughtful to others...more so than most people tbh however this doesn't stretch to empathy when others views dont align with his own. So he has two sides.

You don’t need couples therapy. You need to tell your DH that the level of drinking needs to reduce and if it doesn’t you will be moving to the home you inherited. You won’t be upsizing or making financial decisions until his drinking is at a level you are comfortable with. Say it, mean it and follow through on it.

I’ve known people like this, Op, they are only kind when it doesn’t cost them anything emotionally. You mention that you have generally acquiesced to his views and preferences in the past, and now that you aren’t he is being unkind to you. This feels like him showing you his true colours. Has he always been a heavy drinker? Has something changed to cause it?

fake...he is routinely very kind and thoughtful to others

Bullies abusers...they are often so nice outside the home to others
It just means they can contrrol behaviour but do not make effort where they know they get away with it with no consequences

Thank you. looked into al-anon and hope to join a meeting online this week though need to check whether the fact I occasionally drink myself is a conflict....or its necessary to ve tee-total.As mentioned, every third weekend or so, probably less, I have a bottle of wine myself over a couple of days....hilariously when I brought up DH's drinking he said i have a problem too because when I drink i do so quickly, apparently and the fact I dont drink often doesn't matter.

Do not let yourself be pressured into selling that property, OP, and take the other poster’s advice about seeing a lawyer to investigate whether there’s any way to keep it from becoming a marital asset.

Your DH is controlling as well as an alcoholic. I’m sorry to say I don’t think couples therapy is going to help. It never does when one party is an addict or any kind. His main motivation is to defend himself, not to listen and change.

I hope that the counselling can be helpful for you, to realise that you don’t need to accommodate his rigidity and demands and you don’t need to tiptoe around not upsetting him re: the drinking. I think you are very wise to consider the inherited property a potential bolt hole.

He has been a heavy drinker his whole adult life and prior to meeting me. Heavy drinking was common in his industry due to it being high pressured but that's no excuse. He's 50 now.

Stop saying he’s a lovely man!!! He ISNT he is a functioning alcoholic who is also domestically abusive!! The control he wants over you to even know what you are thinking and talking to other people about? That is not normal! That is not lovely it is abusive!!!
please speak to women’s aid and go and see a counsellor ALONE who is also a domestic abuse specialist

No, he isn't. He is a horrible man who is lovely sometimes.

He's not a lovely man.
He's a street angel and a house alcoholic that has his wife ground down and bent out of shape humouring him and keeping the peace.

I feel so sorry for your children.
An alcoholic for a father and a bullied mother who is completely in denial as to the impact this awful man is having on everyone.

Look: you may or may not also have a problem with alcohol. That is your problem to solve. Don’t get drawn into tit for tat. The marriage is dead already but playing moral one upmanship over the drinking is mangling the corpse.

He’s not lovely OP.

He has a mask that he wears for everyone else….

Why would you want to go to couple's therapy with a functioning alcoholic who is lazy at best and abusive at worst?

Spend your money on a good solicitor and get a divorce instead.

I’d say to him that therapy is a deal breaker for you and that he must attend if he wants to save your marriage.
Suggest that you can discuss with the therapist the idea of him having a list of items to talk about ahead of each session - I’m sure they’ll say it’s a bad idea!
Also suggest that if his drinking is insignificant in the scene of your marriage, the therapist will be able to confirm that for him - they won’t!

Another vote against couples therapy. My understanding is that couples therapy is NOT recommended when there is coercion or abuse. Your description sounds near to both of those.

If you see your inherited property as a possible safe place for you in future then a solicitor may be a better port of call.

I very rarely advise pp to just LTB, but after what you've posted, I actually would. He's not going to quit drinking and it's only going to get worse. You've got another house, I'd take your kids and move into it. It MAY be the wake-up call he needs to finally address his behaviour, tho I wouldn't bank on it. And definitely get counselling just for yourself, get your voice back!

I dont think he is a alcoholic..he can go days without drinking if he wants to for himself....eg studying for a course (never health reasons) but this almost makes it worse as he will abstain for his own gain but not for others. I think he's cruised through his life teetering just on the edge of alcoholism.
The blame shifting is the red flag for me even more so than the drinking. ..and the fact that im pretty sure he asked me to list the points I intended to raise at therapy, knowing full well what they were simply to blame shift again and manufacture an argument.

I dont want to spend my older age, once the children have left home with someone who doesn't care enough about me to at least try to stop or greatly reduce a bad habit. He might be fun and somewhat kind the majority of the time now but I suspect that in 5 or 10 years this wouldn't be the case so I think I need to consider that and will go alone to therapy to discuss it. I'd be willing to move from the home I love to make him happy if he showed equal care for me...but I dont think that's going to happen.