AIBU to think this tutor has an attitude?

[SoCloseToNothing1981]

First time posting on here (long-time lurker). I'm not sure what I'm looking for here tbh, maybe just a hand-hold or just (brutally) honest opinions, but I'm just feeling a bit weird about a Zoom call I had with my DS' history tutor yesterday. I might be overreacting but it's just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Me and DH decided to get DS a tutor for GCSE History. He's in Year 11 and he's had a bit of a shit time with the course. When he was choosing his options in year 9, his history teacher did recommend that he do geography instead because his essay-writing and memory surrounding dates was not good (he did roughly the same in terms of achievement in both history and geography). The thing is he is interested in it, but he just can't remember key dates very well. The thing is he wants to do history at A Level. I feel bad for him because he likes the subject, but he's just not very good at it and obviously that's problematic if he is considering this subject as a potential academic or career pathway.

So we meet this tutor and he says in our initial meeting with him that tutoring is to complement ongoing revision. I don't agree with this because I view tutoring as teaching my DS how to revise. The tutor says that he likes to do a baseline assessment with the students so he can determine their areas they need work on, which again I found a bit overkill because why are you already testing DS when you haven't taught him how to revise yet?? We scheduled a lesson for later that week, but DS was running a little bit late as he'd woken up late so we only had 30 minutes of a lesson with the tutor (it's all done on Zoom). DS thought he had been working on the Cold War that week in school and so the tutor set him some questions on the Cold War. DS, bless him, really struggled with the first question so didn't have time to look at the rest of the questions. The tutor ran through the questions with DS, and that was when DS realised he hadn't actually done the Cold War and he'd gotten the name confused with something else.

The tutoring has been going on for 2 months, and the tutor scheduled a Zoom call with me to basically tell me that we may want to reconsider choosing History as an A Level option. This really caught me off guard, and it came across as him telling me how to parent my child! He said that there are loads of issues regarding essay-writing and analysing sources and interpretations, and whilst he is totally happy to support DS with this he can't ignore the fact that if these skills aren't being mastered in Year 11 history then this is going to severely set DS back when he starts Year 12. I ask the tutor about what revision methods he has taught DS, and the tutor said that the subject knowledge is a key area of weakness, and DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good. I said to the tutor that I think DS just needs to be taught how to create his own quizzes, and how to create flashcards and mindmaps. The tutor said that with mocks coming up those "knowledge gaps" need to be filled in. But I'd prefer him to prioritise teaching DS how to revise history, and if I'm asking for a particular service surely I should receive it?

So, AIBU to think this tutor has a bit of an attitude and is overstepping the mark a bit? I don’t need him to tell us which subjects DS should or shouldn’t do at sixth form, I just want him to teach DS how to revise properly!

DS did history A level after messing up GCSEs (Covid years) and being unable to take 3 sciences. He likes history and did well enough at GCSE but struggles with essay writing. Like your son, he not know how to take notes (dyspraxia), nor how to revise, and he didn’t learn how to do either of these in sixth form. He did not enjoy the course and no longer reads history for fun. He got an D, for which he had to work unbelievably hard. we also had a tutor for him for much of year 13. .

Essay writing is crucial for History. And for A level, they study one topic in breadth and one in depth. DD (who enjoyed the course because she is naturally a good writer) did the war of the roses in depth and would be set questions about events during 3 specific years. So being able to remember dates is also crucial.

If there are subjects your son would find easier, he should go for one of them.

I have tutored for years and, I don’t think you realise that you’re doing it, but you were the worst type of parent to work with. You need to be realistic and you need to listen to the tutor.

Tutoring is designed to be supplemental. Too many parents would think that they could book a tutor for an hour a week and then the job of exam prep for that subject was done. Absolutely not. Of course the child must be still be studying in their own time. Think of if a bit like sports. Who would progress more: the gymnast who did 3 hours a week of training with an additional hour working with a coach to refine their technique or the gymnast who had just one hour of perfect coaching a week. You still need to put the hours in.

You need to stop making excuses for your son. It certainly sounds like he has struggles and maybe SEN is a factor (might be worth a dyslexia test if he struggles with executive planning, essay formation, and time keeping). But if he wants to do history A level then he needs to work for it. It’s really poor that he hasn’t taken notes in class. What is he planning to revise from? Do you have the CGP book or equivalent? He should be finding out his curriculum and setting himself catch up time to make notes and actually learn when he needs to for the exam. It would be better to do this now, e.g. 3 hours every Saturday morning, when he has more time and is less stressed than closer to the exam.

You keep talking about revision but to be clear revision is assimilating and refreshing your existing knowledge. If he doesn’t have that knowledge in the first place then there’s no point in revising. It’s a bit like making a cake - if only 50% of the ingredients are present then it won’t turn into a cake, the other basic ingredients (topic knowledge) must be added. It sounds more like you think he needs study skills? He needs help to actually learn things? So in that case a study skills tutor in conjunction with the history tutor. The history tutor will obviously focus on history, and history specific study skills, not global study skills. If anything pings on a SEN assessment (you can pay for a private assessment with an educational psychologist) then you can get tutors specifically designed to help students with say dyslexia, or ADHD, target their areas of weakness and teach them specific skills to help them.

You’d done quite well in terms of believability up until this point.

The fact that your DS (or rather you) has been through 3 tutors and has had issues with all of them suggests to me that the tutors are not the problem.

Nothing the tutor has done sounds at all unreasonable to me. A baseline test is the best way to determine where a student is currently so they know what to focus on and where to pitch the sessions. If your child is struggling to this extent at GCSE then it's good advice to reconsider whether A-level history is a good option for him (it's a hard A-level - there's a huge amount of content, answering the questions requires a lot of writing skills and nuanced thinking and the coursework is not to be underestimated either). It's also really sound advice to make it clear that tutoring isn't a substitute for independent revision.

On the other hand, turning up to the first session so late that there's only 30mins left is incredibly rude.

Have you thought about you showing your ds a mindmap? I'd also suggest you try mapping key dates onto a timeline - when my youngest was revising for GCSE history we printed out key dates on bits of paper and practised putting them in the right order on the carpet. It seems to me those would be easy things for you to help with, leaving the tutor to focus on gaps in content, how to answer questions etc

As for the charger and being late, yes, I did talk to him about being more organised but the he had been up early the day before to revise.

Being up early the day before is no excuse, will that wash when he's employed?
I still remember the gcse revision timetable I made myself, I started at 7am and finished at 10pm. Every day.

It sounds to me like you're hoping study techniques such as mind maps are what will teach your son the subject?

You can use a mind map as part of your note-taking, eg instead of writing down bullet points you frame them in a mind map, but that won't help when your son won't even in engage.

And he doesn't engage. He doesn't take any notes, can't be bothered to turn up, doesn't pay the slightest bit of attention in class - to the point that he can't even say what the topic is.

That isn't a "bless him" moment.
The history topic won't be changing lesson to lesson, if he has no idea what they are studying for the whole term then he's never paying attention.

Ultimately, your son needs to put in the work, the effort. No one else can do that for him. I'd be really interested to see what his tutorial sessions are like if he's not engaging with the tutor at a basic level.

A study skills tutor might do what you want them to but you son will be taught a framework for learning and will have to apply that himself to a topic. I can't see him managing this if he can't even remember what topic his classes are on.

To be honest, if he can't remember that then I'd be amazed if he passes his history gcse.

I'm left to conclude two things here: either you need to read your son the riot act about his attitude and give him a huge kick up the bum, or (and I mean this both kindly and respectfully) you ask the school if its possible he has undiagnosed learning difficulties.

Unfortunately if he hasn’t worked out how to revise by Year11 then a tutor isn’t going to be able to teach that.

I have adhd and so do my kids. I think you should get your son assessed for it

I’m a tutor and this all sounds very reasonable. You sound like you’re trying to blame the tutor and tell them how to do their job. A tutor certainly can help give revision and exam techniques, but if your DS’s subject knowledge isn’t good, no amount of revision will help.

Doesn’t sound like you want to listen to any of the good advice given here. You may or may not be reading the post anymore, or you’re a troll. But anyway my two cents as an ex teacher and tutor:

1. baseline assessment is essential, or at least a look at recent mock exams. You can’t help someone if you don’t know what they don’t know
2. tutoring is pointless if the student isn’t engaging with the teacher too, tutoring can’t make up for not trying in lessons.
3. knowledge first then revision techniques second. You can’t revise what you haven’t originally learnt.
4. If a tutor has rung you to tell you that your son shouldn’t take a level history then listen to them! They’re potentially doing themselves out of a job, so they must really mean it and are just trying to do right by your son.
5. Be on time for tutoring lessons. It’s just good manners!

I’m curious what your level of education is - as surely you understand that you can’t “revise” something you don’t already understand in the first place?? History is a full on subject at A-Level as covers a lot of information in different time periods. If he’s struggling with GCSE he isn’t going to be able to do the A-Level.

I think the tutor sounds great - he’s doing himself out of money if your son stops tutoring with him as he pulls out of history GCSE. He sounds very professional. You seem pretty defensive about the whole thing.

Watch some YouTube videos on mind maps - that's a general skill that your ds can use across the board in all his subject. Use the history tutor to do what he is specialist at - filling those gaps in your son's knowledge (he can't revise knowledge he doesn't have)

YABU.

You don't trust this tutor, but it's clear from everything you write that you are pretty ignorant about the whole process, and resistant to sound professional help.

I don't get the mindset of paying for professional help, but every point you write in your OP saying "I don't agree". And your son was 30 minutes late for the first meeting, and gave the tutor completely misleading information. Rude & disorganised.

I'd have sacked you at that point. Life's too short to work with a lazy child and a parent who cannot see that she's wrong.

Nothing the tutor has done is out of order. The "attitude" is yours - you sound like a nightmare parent.

The other thing to remember (I'm not wading into the is-he-good enough / interested / pushy parent part of the debate) is that good GCSE tutors are 1) Like needles in a haystack and 2) Inundated with offers of work.

So if your tutor is offering advice, it is probably genuinely well meaning.

The other thing of course is that since you have an idea as to the revision techniques you'd like your son to undertake, why don't you sit with him and help him make the resources you think would help him?

The tutor isn't there to just grab a coffee while you get your son up!! The entitlement of that is unbelievable, get the child out of bed and ready for his session, the tutor probably has others booked in,he can't sit waiting for you.
The lap top should have been charged and ready to go night before.
Your attitude to the tutor says you can't be arsed, what a way to start.
I'd of said a patronising comment too!
I think to be brutally honest you child isn't as bright as you think, not everyone can remember things like dates etc.

OP you clearly want the best for your son, want to support him to undertake a subject that he is interested in and are prepared to do everything in your power (tutoring) to enable him to achieve to the best of his abilities. However, I think you are missing the point of what his teachers and the tutor are saying. In history the ability to interpret, analyse and form opinions based on the evidence presented to you, then convey that in your writing is a key component of the syllabus. Simply bring able to regurgitate the information, dates, times, facts is not enough. While him gaining a better understanding of the subject knowledge and retaining that is important it is equally important to be able
to present his analysis in writing. Why don’t you trust the tutors methodology and support him to develop revision strategies separately to the history tutoring either though your friend, the school or separate tutoring which specialises in revision strategies.

So we meet this tutor and he says in our initial meeting with him that tutoring is to complement ongoing revision. I don't agree with this because I view tutoring as teaching my DS how to revise

It was a mistake to continue believing that you were both on the same page. Tutoring must complement revision because otherwise you're relying on the odd hour or two a week with a tutor to teach your son everything he needs for the exam - thats not enough for gcse. Your son needs to be putting in the work outside if the sessions too.

Can I ask why you didn't approach his teachers for extra help with revision techniques? They'd be best placed to help him with those.

I said to the tutor that I think DS just needs to be taught how to create his own quizzes, and how to create flashcards and mindmaps. The tutor said that with mocks coming up those "knowledge gaps" need to be filled in. But I'd prefer him to prioritise teaching DS how to revise history, and if I'm asking for a particular service surely I should receive it?

I don't know where to start with how wrong this approach is to learning in a subject like history. What's your academic background @SoCloseToNothing1981 ?

It sounds as though your DS is pretty lazy - not taking notes in class? He has nothing to revise, if he hasn't bothered to learn it in the first place.

Your attitude is a bit like someone buying a gym membership, never actually going to the gym, then whining about being fat & unfit.

DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good.

I beg your pardon? He doesn't seem interested in history at all (as you claimed) or he would be taking notes regardless of his opinion on the teacher. He should not do history A-levels due to the fact that he's not good at it AND he's not interested enough to try to compensate for his lack of ability. The fact that he erronously thought they were studying the cold war just proves that he's not paying attention at all.

There are tutors who teach how to revise in general if this is what you want. Subject tutors do their subjects.

My DS year 8 who is a fairly good student is struggling with history as well. His teacher is not terrific this year and even though I make up for this at home with flash cards and talking it through with him there is no way I can compensate for his lack of ability and lack of interest to the point that he will be a good student in this subject. He's aiming for average which will take lots of effort already. I go through with him how to analyse a document and make a coherent response/text which I think is all your tutor can do at this stage.

For your DS (and mine) they will be better off picking a subject they like AND that they are good at. (Maths/Physics/French/Italian for mine).

You are setting your son up for failure @SoCloseToNothing1981 and a tutor is not your remedy. He can't help your son with more than revising so don't blame him.

That's not what begging the question means.

How can your son revise what he never knew/understood? That's not what revising is.

I try not to be a judgey fuck about people's parenting on here but you sound so entitled, and you're letting your son get that way too. He doesn't take notes because the teacher isn't good? That's still the primary resource he has, he needs to take notes whether the teacher is good or not - and how would he know anyway when he is not strong in the subject himself?

I have sent the tutor a sample mind-map template my friend uses with her class as I thought it might help him see what I mean. He hasn't replied yet, which again is frustrating.

Oh god this can't be real. That poor man. Reverse? Surely?
If not, then you need to realise that your friend who is a teacher and agrees with you that revision techniques are important, is NOT agreeing with you that the mind map will help them clearly visualise and connect concepts and information that they HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO LEARN AND UNDERSTAND YET.

Also, stop calling it revision, and if you want someone who is able to teach your kid study skills ask for that.

You're wasting precious time by fighting against what the tutor is advising @SoCloseToNothing1981 . Things are not going to work the way that you think they should, you need to drop that idea and help your DS (and the tutor) with the reality.

I think you are being a bit of a nightmare customer for the poor tutor.

I assume the South Africa timing fuck-up was a different session to the initial late one because your son overslept and couldn't find his charger. If you've only been with this tutor for 2 months and I'd guess are doing one session per week that's a one-quarter strike rate of you messing his timing around. (Contrary to what some parents think, tutors are not in fact at your beck and call to work around your last-minute timing mishaps.)

And you're patronisingly sending him mind-map examples on top of this?! My jaw dropped at that one.

As a side note @SoCloseToNothing1981 you don't need a tutor to teach your son to do quizzes etc. Chatgpt will do that for him in a second.

I think this is a serious problem. The essay is the medium through which history is done - a structured and reasoned argument using evidence and sources. It’s not an easy technique to master but if your son is really keen I’d suggest you get him to watch history documentaries on TV (or on YouTube because they are pretty dumbed down nowadays). These documentaries have an essay structure and they will also help him to remember events and dates etc - with all he accompanying visuals.

He will struggle unless he has a genuine interest in the subject (which doesn’t tally with not being able to retain information) and get to grips with arguing a point effectively. Maybe also get him to argue historical points orally with you?