To ask how much you think income tax will rise by?

[Wonderofwimbledon]

We’re absolutely financially at our limit… I’m so incredibly stressed. An income tax rise will break us and we won’t be able to afford it. We won’t have money to eat.

What do you think it’ll be? I just want to curl up and cry- we can’t take anymore increases our bills , mortgage everything has increased we have no spare money at all

It’s not my opinion, it’s the policy:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130
It’s a tax on education and vocational training of people aged between 4 and 18, otherwise referred to as children.

Labour promised 6000 extra over the course of the Parliament, 5 years... do you know how long it takes to train a teacher?

Improving retention and getting those who have left to re-join would be great as well.

650k children are not affected at all, the vast majority of parents can easily afford the extra fees, schools wouldn't have passed on the increase if most parents couldn't, they'd cut back their spend, but still be able to offer outstanding education.

You just don't want to pay anymore tax, thats all, no shame in that but don't hide behind "oh what about poor children?" nonsense.

No parent is on NMW, if they can afford PS in the first place.

This is again I’m afraid nothing new and just the usual identity politics, if you don’t like this then it’s because you’re selfish as you can afford it. You can try this argument for anything

As you know I have based my views on published data.

Stating what the data shows is not biased unless there is evidence of misinterpretation.

The assertion of whether what that data shows is a good or bad thing for the country is values based, of course it is, that's the same for anyone.

But unless there is inherent bias in the interpretation of the data, use of the available evidence aligned with a stated values base is not bias because it isn't unfair or prejudiced (assuming the values are not unfair or prejudiced)

If my analysis of the data has a bias which I have missed, the please, tell me where, because I absolutely would want to correct that.

If you believe the bias comes from how I have used the data aligned with my values base, which I listed in a previous post, then that would be a great discussion as I am always interested in hearing different opinions (as long as it is clear they are opinions and not stated as fact 😉)

There’s no link to state school funding though, why can’t an increase in defence or health budget be a success criteria?

The link is literally laid out in the policy:

The government is removing the VAT exemption for education and boarding services provided by private schools in order to raise revenue to support the public finances and help deliver the government’s commitments relating to education and young people, including the 94% of school children who attend state schools.

You can't judge an increase in health or defence spending as a success criteria because that is not what is set out in the policy.

It's like judging someone's ability as a parent by how many houseplants they can keep alive!

I can absolutely say Labour haven’t delivered the 6000 new teachers that this was supposed to.

Of course they haven't delivered 6000 new teachers.

It is the government's job to provide funding to the sector who will then train and recruit those 6000 teachers. That is not going to happen in 12 months, an increasing number of teachers and improving school outcomes will happen over time.

What the government have done is provide the funding to the sector to enable them to start that recruitment.

I missed an earlier post where you said: As far as it being common sense to not get wound up by it, if you had children you’d understand that common sense goes out the window if someone is trying (and succeeding) in hurting them.

The common sense to not get wound up by political soundbites comment was in response to your £45k working person jibe.

I do have children and I work in a sector which has seen first hand the hurt and damage that has been caused, not just to my children, but to the millions of others who attend state schools, and especially those with SEN, through 14 years of cuts and underfunding.

As I said, I'm not interested in class wars, and I am not jumping up and down with joy because they've, in your words, "given the children of people they don’t like a bit of a kick in."

I have said, multiple times, that I do not necessarily agree with everything that Labour are doing to raise revenue and, (on the assumption that your children attend(ed) private school) I am sorry if your family has had hardship visited upon them by this particular policy.

But, that doesn't change the fact that I am incredibly pleased that funding for education has been increased substantially because by improving schools and education it will alleviate hardship and improve opportunity for millions of children.

Your comments about politics of envy have raised a question for me though.....

Over the last few years, while you were sending your children to private school, were you campaigning against the underfunding of state schools?

Or are you accusing people of employing politics of envy to hurt your children after years of taking an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude and ignoring the hurt inflicted on millions of other children?

I really don't understand what on earth you re trying to say now...

We need tax rises to stop things like the murder of poor Sara Sharif, Social Services is another sector the Tories ran into the ground.

How they ve nerve to now call for changes and actions, when they did absolutely nothing on child abuse is quite incredible.

& i will blame the Tories for her death, as they were in Govt and that seems to the bar for blame now.

Yes exactly :

The government is removing the VAT exemption for education and boarding services provided by private schools in order to raise revenue to support the public finances and help deliver the government’s commitments relating to education and young people, including the 94% of school children who attend state schools.

it says help to and including, it also helps to an includes health and defence which is why I brought it up. There’s also been 42 billion in taxes since then and maybe more next week. Honestly, even the wording if this policy drips in identity politics that insinuates paying for a child’s education some how takes away from the state schools.

No I’ve not been campaigning for under funding of state schools, but I helped out running a BBQ at my daughters state school summer fair if that makes me a good enough person to pass judgement?

Brexit Britain in full swing.
And it is going to get worse.

I know you’re not getting it. Basically it goes like this; you say insert some tax, penalty or crazy idea and I say that’s a bit ridiculous, unfair and the downsides outweigh the benefits and then you say don’t you care about poor or disabled people , children being murdered, kittens drowning, This will go for every issue. It’s an ideological thing to do with linking your sense of worth to virtue signalling, can’t remember the official term but I read about it recently. It’s not healthy.

The Tory obsession is something new though.

I suspect those shouting loudest for these don't want them anywhere near their back garden.

Re accommodation for illegal migrants, responding to @Alexandra2001 : there is a highly secure (mothballed) establishment near me, located in a wilderness area, which would seem to offer potential.

And in answer to a question about how long to train a teacher: a PGCE takes 12 months.

Starmer’s Britain tbf the second line might be right though.

I have a strong suspicion that Labour’s plan is to offer a rejoin referendum if they are given a second term. I’m up for rejoining but I think that another referendum will just unleash more division at the moment

I send my Sen child to private school as the state sector were totally uninterested in providing for them, they were self harming badly and it was either that or giving up work to home school. We get charged the VAT still, like most other parents of SEN kids who send them to private school.

There’s not a week that goes past when I don’t fire off a letter to an MP, lobbying group, teachers union or other interested party, highlighting this exact issue and asking them wtf they’re going to do about it. It’s a travesty. I don’t want my child in private school. I’d rather have the tens of thousands of pounds we spend in our bank account thanks. I could do with a holiday, but believe me we were given absolutely no choice.

There are many many sen kids in private*, and THEY are the parents frantically diving down the back of the sofa, flogging stuff on vinted, pleading with relatives for help / loans because they have no choice. I’m glad you think it’s fair we’re being charged VAT. I beg to differ.

*I saw. Hilarious news article about the amount of Sen kids in private and someone said this was obviously because their sharp elbowed parents were able to secure diagnosis, rather than the glaring answer that so many parent of Sen kids think it is their only option and is cheaper than giving up work to home school!

That part where you break down the years in pp is heavily pro Labour.

Hilarious! pp said another pp had to much v pro Labour bias.... despite her constant Labour bashing pre and post Govt... and you, who have written 100s of posts criticising Labour, have the bare faced cheek to say i'm Tory obsessed.

Like or not, the problems we see in this country are, in the main, down to them.

Have Labour messed up, yes of course but that doesn't detract from what they have to deal with right now.

Just to ask, are you consciously aware that you’re still posting about the Tories?

Who is ‘her’ in these posts. At least avoid completely or have the courage to insult properly.

@BionicWomansAnkle Just to check I haven't misunderstood - you have a child at private school who is being 'hurt' by this policy which you are absolutely raging about, but you aren't raging about the hurt inflicted on your child who attends a state school from years of cuts and underfunding?

If you complain that Labour are implementing ideology driven policies that you perceive as causing harm to one group of children and ignore the last 14 years of ideology driven policies that have caused proveable harm to millions of others, it is hypocritical - and helping out at a school fair BBQ does not mitigate that.

If you genuinely don't want class wars as a result of ideologically driven government, then stop attacking the government and people less fortunate than yourself from an ideological standpoint, as you have done throughout this thread.

If you do want the country to be run based on the ideology of plutocracy, then you'll just have to suck it up for now and wait for the plutocrats time to come around again.

Wanting fairness for everyone means recognising and praising good things when they happen, even if it has been achieved as a result of something you don't like.

For example, I thought some Tory policies and initiatives were good, at least in principle.

I hated what they did to the national curriculum but the Apprenticeship Levy is great as were the changes for post-16 education with the recognition of vocational qualifications through T-Levels.

I even thought school acadamisation wasn't a bad idea in and of itself - again, just not the way it was implemented.

The council tax levy to support social care was a decent compromise for increasing council funding, just implemented, either intentionally or accidentally, in a way that benefitted wealthier areas rather than the less well off areas that needed the money most.

Supporting Families, the Holiday and Food programme (HAF) and Familiy Hubs initiatives were good ideas, even if they were underfunded and implemented as sticking plasters rather than intentional change.

From an ideological standpoint I don't think these things made up for the much larger failings, and some, especially Family Hubs were just a rehash of Labour initiatives that had been shut down. But it would be churlish of me not to recognise that they did some good.

Finding areas of common ground results in better outcomes for everyone. It reduces polarisation and by working together and compromise, more people can get what they need and want.

If we can agree a set of common, basic, principles that gives everyone the opportunity to achieve a decent standard of living, we can still argue about the rest.

At least that way there would be consistency over time, instead of these ridiculous policy shifts where the people on the ideological side of those in power get everything and those on the opposite side get nothing.

That is awful - If I had to choose the biggest, most far reaching failure of the last government, it would be the state of SEN and mental health services for children as a result of underfunding.

Were you completely refused an EHCP or did the LA just refuse to name an appropriate school?

It is true, that statistically, a higher proportion of children with SEN come from demographically wealthier areas with more educated parents. But the reason for it, isn't that those parents are buying a diagnosis or whatever, it is because the system is so damn complicated and unfair that parents with higher levels of education are more equipped to be able to understand the system and fight for their kids.

Parents of children with additional needs should have to be degree educated to get the support their children need. It is yet another example of the class divide.

And for what its worth - I think that any child with an EHCP should have been exempted from the VAT, or parents given a mechanism for claiming it back in the same way LAs can.

I know it doesn't help your personal situation, but at least with the increase in funding going into schools and children's services, it will hopefully mean that support for children with SEN and school inclusion improve and in the future, not as many parents will need to resort to having to scrape together enough money to buy the education that their children deserve.

There is a Sam Seaborn quote in the West Wing which pretty much sums it up

"Education is the silver bullet... Schools should be palaces. Competition for the best teachers should be fierce; they should be making six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense."

OK - give me the otherside of the coin then.

What was good about the Thatcher / Major years that Blair / Brown did worse. Which social group had worse outcomes?

What was bad about the Blair / Brown years that Cameron / May /Johnson / Truss / Sunak did better? Which groups had a better quality of life than under Blair and Brown?

I'm happy to recognise the good if it exists, but I don't know where to look because none of quantitative or qualitative evidence I've seen shows that.

It's a genuine question. It may be that there are things I haven't considered because they are outside of my values base or experience and I'm always willing to learn more - what are you seeing that I am missing?

Only now? We've been doing that for at least the six years we've had a green bin!!!!

I can post about what i like, as can you...
its relevant to the thread....

Just as you talk non stop about school fees and VAT, which is a tax that has already been raised, the thread is about future tax increases.... which have to rise because of the previous Govt...

Moving on....

I hope Reeves will do something about Council tax bands and the unfairness inherent in the system.

Any views on this?

Council tax is a tricky one is anyone living in a bigger house using more services than anyone else. Possibly more rubbish is a large family in an large house

We pay for the year and now keep missing the collection

The biggest costs to the local authority are social care and education. Anyone using those services is costing far more than any other household, regardless of the size of their house.