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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask how much you think income tax will rise by?

900 replies

Wonderofwimbledon · 06/11/2025 20:33

We’re absolutely financially at our limit… I’m so incredibly stressed. An income tax rise will break us and we won’t be able to afford it. We won’t have money to eat.

What do you think it’ll be? I just want to curl up and cry- we can’t take anymore increases our bills , mortgage everything has increased we have no spare money at all

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 16:58

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 16:35

I hate to be pedantic but again I asked
Can you please post the published data showing tax rises are not bad for the economy and that benefits are not increasing.’
Would you mind just answering these questions and providing links.

Yes, I think you have my answer in the quote regarding ‘relative to the last 14 months’ Tories were a huge success. It’s slightly tongue in cheek as Brexit and the pandemic were awful, but it was over a long period. To squeeze civil unrest, custodial sentences for tweets, education tax, two black holes totalling 70 billion, 2 attempted whitewashing of the grooming gang scandals, the corruption minister resigning for corruption, the Secretary of State for housing resigning for housing shenanigans, the Secretary of education laughing about schools closing, the chancellor of the exchequer forgetting her property license, the breaking of their no tax rise manifesto commitment twice, the labelling of people who earn over £45k as non working people, the biggest and quickest drop in the polls ever recorded all into 14 months is remarkable and that’s before we get to all the goodies coming over the next few weeks. That’s what I meant.

No manifesto tax promise has yet been broken. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “civil unrest”, presumably it’s the idiots protesting outside asylum seekers’ accommodation which can hardly be blamed on this government. No government can be expected to take responsibility for fuckwits.

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 17:20

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 14:31

Ok still in the zone there, how about this?

Barclays is forecasting that Reeves will be looking for £41bn in tax rises in the budget, up from their prediction of £26.5bn in September.

And the manifesto pledge being broken? Still all going well?

You are funny - still in the zone indeed 😂I'm not even a Labour voter - I tend to lean more towards the Lib Dems and only vote Labour on a tactical basis because I live in a safe Tory seat and they were more likely to win than the Lib Dem's.

You are just being disingenious with this whole 'people who like Labour can't see the truth' nonesense when you are being exactly the same in talking about how terrible they are.

You asked a question about why she held a press conference, I answered it and pointed out that pre-announcing budget measures is hardly unique. Nothing I said was a defence of her in any way.

Why do you think she held a press conference? And why do you think the Tories used to leak all their budget plans before the actual statement?

I certainly don't like Rachel Reeves as a chancellor and as I have already said numerous times on this thread and others, I don't agree with any changes to the pension allowances, ISA allowances, or with raising taxes on basic rate tax payers and if they economy tanks as a result then I will happily call them out.

Yes, I would prefer a centre left party in power over a right wing party, because their values align with mine, for the most part, at least.

But regardless of values, all factual evidence says that good public services are the bedrock of a good economy and that is what I will judge a government on. To have good growth which puts money in everyone's pockets, you need a healthy, educated and happy population and you need good infrastructure like housing, roads and broadband.

What I object to is people saying things that are factually incorrect and can be easily disproven like 'Labour are always terrible for the economy' - when under almost every measure economic and public service measure, the last Labour government performed better than the Tory government before it and the one after it.

Blair and Brown did a pretty good job of fixing the mess from the Thatcher / Major years - education improved, the health service improved, the economy improved, the tax burden decreased and public debt was kept low, but everything they achieved has been utterly destroyed in the last 14 years

Are you really going to try and argue that public services and the economy were better 12 months ago than they were in 2008, or even 2010 (despite the financial crash)?

I really don't understand people who say that things were better under the Tories when they have utterly destroyed the fabric of our public services first through privatisation in the 80's and 90's and then through ideologically driven cuts under the last Tory government. They even increased taxes to the highest rate since 1949 and people still try to say that Labour are the party of high taxes.

I will call out people who say that 12 months of this Labour government hasn't improved anything, when again, key measures such as economic growth, education funding and NHS waiting lists are getting better despite the fact they are dealing not just with years of ideological destruction of the public sector, but also with global issues like Trump's tariffs and the war in Ukraine.

Labour have been power for 15 of the last 45 years, and in the years they have been in power, by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved.

Do I think tax hikes, in the way that has been suggested are wrong? Absolutely!

It doesn't change the fact that we need to pay more tax as a country but there are better ways of doing it and it needs to come with fundamental change. However, I'll hold my nose and swallow it as long as public services continue to improve, because it is only through improving services do we stand any chance of being able to lower taxes in the future!

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 17:26

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 17:20

You are funny - still in the zone indeed 😂I'm not even a Labour voter - I tend to lean more towards the Lib Dems and only vote Labour on a tactical basis because I live in a safe Tory seat and they were more likely to win than the Lib Dem's.

You are just being disingenious with this whole 'people who like Labour can't see the truth' nonesense when you are being exactly the same in talking about how terrible they are.

You asked a question about why she held a press conference, I answered it and pointed out that pre-announcing budget measures is hardly unique. Nothing I said was a defence of her in any way.

Why do you think she held a press conference? And why do you think the Tories used to leak all their budget plans before the actual statement?

I certainly don't like Rachel Reeves as a chancellor and as I have already said numerous times on this thread and others, I don't agree with any changes to the pension allowances, ISA allowances, or with raising taxes on basic rate tax payers and if they economy tanks as a result then I will happily call them out.

Yes, I would prefer a centre left party in power over a right wing party, because their values align with mine, for the most part, at least.

But regardless of values, all factual evidence says that good public services are the bedrock of a good economy and that is what I will judge a government on. To have good growth which puts money in everyone's pockets, you need a healthy, educated and happy population and you need good infrastructure like housing, roads and broadband.

What I object to is people saying things that are factually incorrect and can be easily disproven like 'Labour are always terrible for the economy' - when under almost every measure economic and public service measure, the last Labour government performed better than the Tory government before it and the one after it.

Blair and Brown did a pretty good job of fixing the mess from the Thatcher / Major years - education improved, the health service improved, the economy improved, the tax burden decreased and public debt was kept low, but everything they achieved has been utterly destroyed in the last 14 years

Are you really going to try and argue that public services and the economy were better 12 months ago than they were in 2008, or even 2010 (despite the financial crash)?

I really don't understand people who say that things were better under the Tories when they have utterly destroyed the fabric of our public services first through privatisation in the 80's and 90's and then through ideologically driven cuts under the last Tory government. They even increased taxes to the highest rate since 1949 and people still try to say that Labour are the party of high taxes.

I will call out people who say that 12 months of this Labour government hasn't improved anything, when again, key measures such as economic growth, education funding and NHS waiting lists are getting better despite the fact they are dealing not just with years of ideological destruction of the public sector, but also with global issues like Trump's tariffs and the war in Ukraine.

Labour have been power for 15 of the last 45 years, and in the years they have been in power, by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved.

Do I think tax hikes, in the way that has been suggested are wrong? Absolutely!

It doesn't change the fact that we need to pay more tax as a country but there are better ways of doing it and it needs to come with fundamental change. However, I'll hold my nose and swallow it as long as public services continue to improve, because it is only through improving services do we stand any chance of being able to lower taxes in the future!

Labour have been power for 15 of the last 45 years, and in the years they have been in power, by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved.

I am sorry, but in the nicest possible way - what utter bunkum.

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 17:36

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 16:58

No manifesto tax promise has yet been broken. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “civil unrest”, presumably it’s the idiots protesting outside asylum seekers’ accommodation which can hardly be blamed on this government. No government can be expected to take responsibility for fuckwits.

I think people understand why you write these things. Perhaps the Government can trigger civil unrest more to your liking over the next few months, let’s face it they’re giving it a good go.

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 17:39

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 17:36

I think people understand why you write these things. Perhaps the Government can trigger civil unrest more to your liking over the next few months, let’s face it they’re giving it a good go.

That’s a very peculiar thing to say. Obviously I don’t want civil unrest, equally it’s not a term I’d apply to a few idiots who just want an excuse to exhibit their lack of intellect.

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 17:41

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 17:39

That’s a very peculiar thing to say. Obviously I don’t want civil unrest, equally it’s not a term I’d apply to a few idiots who just want an excuse to exhibit their lack of intellect.

Totally understand where you’re coming from.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 17:42

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 16:58

No manifesto tax promise has yet been broken. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “civil unrest”, presumably it’s the idiots protesting outside asylum seekers’ accommodation which can hardly be blamed on this government. No government can be expected to take responsibility for fuckwits.

Reeves has gone to the OBR and has signalled to the electorate that the manifesto will be broken.

Shall we wait for you to correct your post at this time on 26th November?

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 17:42

Do you now? Where’s that then?

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 17:43

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 17:42

Reeves has gone to the OBR and has signalled to the electorate that the manifesto will be broken.

Shall we wait for you to correct your post at this time on 26th November?

If you wish to be accurate, yes.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 17:56

BIossomtoes · 11/11/2025 17:43

If you wish to be accurate, yes.

That would be preferable, yes.

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 18:25

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 17:26

Labour have been power for 15 of the last 45 years, and in the years they have been in power, by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved.

I am sorry, but in the nicest possible way - what utter bunkum.

Better GDP growth
Better NDP growth,
Better hospital services,
Got more people into work
improved outcomes for early years
Reduced child poverty
Improved education outcomes
Reduced crime rates
Increased home ownership
Didn't significantly increase debt, as a percentage of GDP to do it.

All of those are factually provable through official statistics - so which part is bunkham?

Which things got measurably worse?

And don't just give me your opinion, give me the data from an official or reliable source to prove it (ONS, other government departments, OECD, Statista, Kings Fund etc - not a newspaper or partisan think tank),

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 18:40

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 18:25

Better GDP growth
Better NDP growth,
Better hospital services,
Got more people into work
improved outcomes for early years
Reduced child poverty
Improved education outcomes
Reduced crime rates
Increased home ownership
Didn't significantly increase debt, as a percentage of GDP to do it.

All of those are factually provable through official statistics - so which part is bunkham?

Which things got measurably worse?

And don't just give me your opinion, give me the data from an official or reliable source to prove it (ONS, other government departments, OECD, Statista, Kings Fund etc - not a newspaper or partisan think tank),

Edited

Your words ‘by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved (during a Labour government’s 15 out of the last 45 years)’

You made the assertion, so you must have the hard data to support it (following your logic). You do have the data, correct?

Addressing the economy for a moment, I believe you will find little between them (possibly with the exception of inflation, which would logically favour the Tories).
Hence my bunkum comment (which I stand by until you provide the data upon which you made your assertion)

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 18:43

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 17:20

You are funny - still in the zone indeed 😂I'm not even a Labour voter - I tend to lean more towards the Lib Dems and only vote Labour on a tactical basis because I live in a safe Tory seat and they were more likely to win than the Lib Dem's.

You are just being disingenious with this whole 'people who like Labour can't see the truth' nonesense when you are being exactly the same in talking about how terrible they are.

You asked a question about why she held a press conference, I answered it and pointed out that pre-announcing budget measures is hardly unique. Nothing I said was a defence of her in any way.

Why do you think she held a press conference? And why do you think the Tories used to leak all their budget plans before the actual statement?

I certainly don't like Rachel Reeves as a chancellor and as I have already said numerous times on this thread and others, I don't agree with any changes to the pension allowances, ISA allowances, or with raising taxes on basic rate tax payers and if they economy tanks as a result then I will happily call them out.

Yes, I would prefer a centre left party in power over a right wing party, because their values align with mine, for the most part, at least.

But regardless of values, all factual evidence says that good public services are the bedrock of a good economy and that is what I will judge a government on. To have good growth which puts money in everyone's pockets, you need a healthy, educated and happy population and you need good infrastructure like housing, roads and broadband.

What I object to is people saying things that are factually incorrect and can be easily disproven like 'Labour are always terrible for the economy' - when under almost every measure economic and public service measure, the last Labour government performed better than the Tory government before it and the one after it.

Blair and Brown did a pretty good job of fixing the mess from the Thatcher / Major years - education improved, the health service improved, the economy improved, the tax burden decreased and public debt was kept low, but everything they achieved has been utterly destroyed in the last 14 years

Are you really going to try and argue that public services and the economy were better 12 months ago than they were in 2008, or even 2010 (despite the financial crash)?

I really don't understand people who say that things were better under the Tories when they have utterly destroyed the fabric of our public services first through privatisation in the 80's and 90's and then through ideologically driven cuts under the last Tory government. They even increased taxes to the highest rate since 1949 and people still try to say that Labour are the party of high taxes.

I will call out people who say that 12 months of this Labour government hasn't improved anything, when again, key measures such as economic growth, education funding and NHS waiting lists are getting better despite the fact they are dealing not just with years of ideological destruction of the public sector, but also with global issues like Trump's tariffs and the war in Ukraine.

Labour have been power for 15 of the last 45 years, and in the years they have been in power, by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved.

Do I think tax hikes, in the way that has been suggested are wrong? Absolutely!

It doesn't change the fact that we need to pay more tax as a country but there are better ways of doing it and it needs to come with fundamental change. However, I'll hold my nose and swallow it as long as public services continue to improve, because it is only through improving services do we stand any chance of being able to lower taxes in the future!

Ok I think two things are problematic for Labour.

The tax spiral, ie hiking taxes in ‘24 and having to do it again now despite the pledge not to.

This is due to not getting the behavioural impact of higher taxes. This could bite again.

And debt servicing. It’s great to have money for stuff but £100bn is just tax payer money going to servicing the debt not public services.

Other things too, but these are the two main ones rn

I think she did an unusual pre budget conference because the markets are kinder to tax hikes and Labour need to get that debt servicing down. Plus warning people generally that they’ll break the manifesto.

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 18:48

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 18:25

Better GDP growth
Better NDP growth,
Better hospital services,
Got more people into work
improved outcomes for early years
Reduced child poverty
Improved education outcomes
Reduced crime rates
Increased home ownership
Didn't significantly increase debt, as a percentage of GDP to do it.

All of those are factually provable through official statistics - so which part is bunkham?

Which things got measurably worse?

And don't just give me your opinion, give me the data from an official or reliable source to prove it (ONS, other government departments, OECD, Statista, Kings Fund etc - not a newspaper or partisan think tank),

Edited

All of those are factually provable through official statistics - so which part is bunkham?

These all seem quite extraordinarily claims. Would you mind sharing the factually provable official statistics please?

Lkjjr · 11/11/2025 18:59

Don't people call Blair and Brown "red Tories"?

Alexandra2001 · 11/11/2025 19:30

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 18:40

Your words ‘by every measurable standard, services and the economy have improved (during a Labour government’s 15 out of the last 45 years)’

You made the assertion, so you must have the hard data to support it (following your logic). You do have the data, correct?

Addressing the economy for a moment, I believe you will find little between them (possibly with the exception of inflation, which would logically favour the Tories).
Hence my bunkum comment (which I stand by until you provide the data upon which you made your assertion)

Unfortunately for you, self inflicted economic damage is the Tories MO and when it isn't, they make something bad .... disasterous.

They even gave us Brexit, possibly the worst foreign and economic policy ever.

Even after WW2, Churchill decided to spend the Marshall money on the Commonwealth, instead of on our infrastructure.... Heath took the oil crisis and gave us the 3 day week, before handing his mis management to Labour....who in the interests of balance, also messed it up....

Thatcher took NS oil and gave it away in tax breaks, she then sold off all our publicly owned assets, which Telecoms aside, should never have happened and which we now will pay... again... billions to fix/buy back.
She then wrecked our industrial base, even our once great automotive sector is no more.
Only Triumph M/c survive,

Then we have the ERM, the 2 recessions that followed, they destroyed the legacy Blair gave them and ran down our public services - everything is worse than in 2010... can you name a public service that has improved.... ???

Bojo fucked up Covid but did well on Ukraine but then look what they did with the water industry?

But the reality is, the Cons have been in power for the majority of the post war period and look where it got us.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 19:40

Alexandra2001 · 11/11/2025 19:30

Unfortunately for you, self inflicted economic damage is the Tories MO and when it isn't, they make something bad .... disasterous.

They even gave us Brexit, possibly the worst foreign and economic policy ever.

Even after WW2, Churchill decided to spend the Marshall money on the Commonwealth, instead of on our infrastructure.... Heath took the oil crisis and gave us the 3 day week, before handing his mis management to Labour....who in the interests of balance, also messed it up....

Thatcher took NS oil and gave it away in tax breaks, she then sold off all our publicly owned assets, which Telecoms aside, should never have happened and which we now will pay... again... billions to fix/buy back.
She then wrecked our industrial base, even our once great automotive sector is no more.
Only Triumph M/c survive,

Then we have the ERM, the 2 recessions that followed, they destroyed the legacy Blair gave them and ran down our public services - everything is worse than in 2010... can you name a public service that has improved.... ???

Bojo fucked up Covid but did well on Ukraine but then look what they did with the water industry?

But the reality is, the Cons have been in power for the majority of the post war period and look where it got us.

If you don’t mind, and for the sake of expediency, I shall simply address your last
paragraph.

So, the electorate and/or Labour (in opposition) are culpable, correct?

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 20:52

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 16:35

I hate to be pedantic but again I asked
Can you please post the published data showing tax rises are not bad for the economy and that benefits are not increasing.’
Would you mind just answering these questions and providing links.

Yes, I think you have my answer in the quote regarding ‘relative to the last 14 months’ Tories were a huge success. It’s slightly tongue in cheek as Brexit and the pandemic were awful, but it was over a long period. To squeeze civil unrest, custodial sentences for tweets, education tax, two black holes totalling 70 billion, 2 attempted whitewashing of the grooming gang scandals, the corruption minister resigning for corruption, the Secretary of State for housing resigning for housing shenanigans, the Secretary of education laughing about schools closing, the chancellor of the exchequer forgetting her property license, the breaking of their no tax rise manifesto commitment twice, the labelling of people who earn over £45k as non working people, the biggest and quickest drop in the polls ever recorded all into 14 months is remarkable and that’s before we get to all the goodies coming over the next few weeks. That’s what I meant.

I have posted links that show benefits are not increasing - and subsequently explained why they are not increasing.

I gave you the ONS link showing a reduction in claimants of out of work benefits from 4.6% to 4.1%

I gave you the ONS link which shows a reduction in people who are not economically active from 21.6% to 20% (which indicates a reduction in incapacity benefits)

I gave you a link to the official data on benefits spend which shows that the spend on benefits as a percentage of GDP is forecast to remain stable at 4.1% through to 2020.

The official data on spend was published before the data related to the fall in claimant count and fall in economic inactivity. If that trend continues, it is highly likely that 4.1% will be reduced.

Which part of that is not addressing your request for official statistics which show that benefits are falling?

As for you request about taxe rises not being bad, I still don't know why you keep asking me to fo that when I never said that they weren't?

However I did give you data, for two countries, comparable in terms of culture with the UK, that have higher taxes and statistically measurable better growth, higher wages and lower public sector debt.

I do realise I ommited the links to where the graphs came from, so to rectify that here you go:

TRADING ECONOMICS | 20 million INDICATORS FROM 196 COUNTRIES https://share.google/uRTxnZhCfD8GZcWFz

This website pulls together all of the official statistics from various countries as well as organisations like the OECD and is clear on the source. The screenshots I included are all OECD data which you can find here: Indicators | OECD https://share.google/LmU6VKZdnttJLfuRa

As for you excusing the Tories because of Brexit and the pandemic - Brexit was entirely their fault and all the economic measures show growth was stagnant, the benefits bill and debt were rising and health services and education were deteriorating before the pandemic, so not even giving them a pass for Covid helps them.

Civil unrest was happening under the last Tory government and is a direct result of everyone having a worse quality of life.

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

The financial black hole was caused by the Tories - Labour have not caused it in the last 12 months which you know full well.

The grooming scandal broke in 2011 - there were numerous different enquiries and reports into it over the years including:

The Jay Report (2014)
Home Affairs Committee (2013-2014)
The first Casey Report (2015)
The IPCCI investigation (2020)
The Home Office report (2020) - which the government initially refused to release.

14 years and at least five reports, after any of which, the Conservative government could have commissioned an audit or ordered a full enquiry.

But sure, Starmer commissioning Casey to head the National Audit, accepting all of the recommendations and setting up a national enquiry in less than 12 months is a whitewash 🙄

The £45k working person nonsense is a total PR mistep- they are clearly using it in place of 'working class', but their PR people absolutely need a slap with a wet kipper for that one. It's as ridiculous as Cameron's ' Hug a Hoody'.

As for breaking manifesto promises and scandals the Tories could go head to head with Labour on every single one and them some.

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 21:18

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 20:52

I have posted links that show benefits are not increasing - and subsequently explained why they are not increasing.

I gave you the ONS link showing a reduction in claimants of out of work benefits from 4.6% to 4.1%

I gave you the ONS link which shows a reduction in people who are not economically active from 21.6% to 20% (which indicates a reduction in incapacity benefits)

I gave you a link to the official data on benefits spend which shows that the spend on benefits as a percentage of GDP is forecast to remain stable at 4.1% through to 2020.

The official data on spend was published before the data related to the fall in claimant count and fall in economic inactivity. If that trend continues, it is highly likely that 4.1% will be reduced.

Which part of that is not addressing your request for official statistics which show that benefits are falling?

As for you request about taxe rises not being bad, I still don't know why you keep asking me to fo that when I never said that they weren't?

However I did give you data, for two countries, comparable in terms of culture with the UK, that have higher taxes and statistically measurable better growth, higher wages and lower public sector debt.

I do realise I ommited the links to where the graphs came from, so to rectify that here you go:

TRADING ECONOMICS | 20 million INDICATORS FROM 196 COUNTRIES https://share.google/uRTxnZhCfD8GZcWFz

This website pulls together all of the official statistics from various countries as well as organisations like the OECD and is clear on the source. The screenshots I included are all OECD data which you can find here: Indicators | OECD https://share.google/LmU6VKZdnttJLfuRa

As for you excusing the Tories because of Brexit and the pandemic - Brexit was entirely their fault and all the economic measures show growth was stagnant, the benefits bill and debt were rising and health services and education were deteriorating before the pandemic, so not even giving them a pass for Covid helps them.

Civil unrest was happening under the last Tory government and is a direct result of everyone having a worse quality of life.

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

The financial black hole was caused by the Tories - Labour have not caused it in the last 12 months which you know full well.

The grooming scandal broke in 2011 - there were numerous different enquiries and reports into it over the years including:

The Jay Report (2014)
Home Affairs Committee (2013-2014)
The first Casey Report (2015)
The IPCCI investigation (2020)
The Home Office report (2020) - which the government initially refused to release.

14 years and at least five reports, after any of which, the Conservative government could have commissioned an audit or ordered a full enquiry.

But sure, Starmer commissioning Casey to head the National Audit, accepting all of the recommendations and setting up a national enquiry in less than 12 months is a whitewash 🙄

The £45k working person nonsense is a total PR mistep- they are clearly using it in place of 'working class', but their PR people absolutely need a slap with a wet kipper for that one. It's as ridiculous as Cameron's ' Hug a Hoody'.

As for breaking manifesto promises and scandals the Tories could go head to head with Labour on every single one and them some.

OMG Look I don’t want to be rude and I am sympathetic as I have relatives who are starting to get like this, but please either post the published data you said you had on the below very straight forward questions or stop tagging me.

Can you please post the published data showing tax rises are not bad for the economy and that benefits are not increasing.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 21:33

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 20:52

I have posted links that show benefits are not increasing - and subsequently explained why they are not increasing.

I gave you the ONS link showing a reduction in claimants of out of work benefits from 4.6% to 4.1%

I gave you the ONS link which shows a reduction in people who are not economically active from 21.6% to 20% (which indicates a reduction in incapacity benefits)

I gave you a link to the official data on benefits spend which shows that the spend on benefits as a percentage of GDP is forecast to remain stable at 4.1% through to 2020.

The official data on spend was published before the data related to the fall in claimant count and fall in economic inactivity. If that trend continues, it is highly likely that 4.1% will be reduced.

Which part of that is not addressing your request for official statistics which show that benefits are falling?

As for you request about taxe rises not being bad, I still don't know why you keep asking me to fo that when I never said that they weren't?

However I did give you data, for two countries, comparable in terms of culture with the UK, that have higher taxes and statistically measurable better growth, higher wages and lower public sector debt.

I do realise I ommited the links to where the graphs came from, so to rectify that here you go:

TRADING ECONOMICS | 20 million INDICATORS FROM 196 COUNTRIES https://share.google/uRTxnZhCfD8GZcWFz

This website pulls together all of the official statistics from various countries as well as organisations like the OECD and is clear on the source. The screenshots I included are all OECD data which you can find here: Indicators | OECD https://share.google/LmU6VKZdnttJLfuRa

As for you excusing the Tories because of Brexit and the pandemic - Brexit was entirely their fault and all the economic measures show growth was stagnant, the benefits bill and debt were rising and health services and education were deteriorating before the pandemic, so not even giving them a pass for Covid helps them.

Civil unrest was happening under the last Tory government and is a direct result of everyone having a worse quality of life.

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

The financial black hole was caused by the Tories - Labour have not caused it in the last 12 months which you know full well.

The grooming scandal broke in 2011 - there were numerous different enquiries and reports into it over the years including:

The Jay Report (2014)
Home Affairs Committee (2013-2014)
The first Casey Report (2015)
The IPCCI investigation (2020)
The Home Office report (2020) - which the government initially refused to release.

14 years and at least five reports, after any of which, the Conservative government could have commissioned an audit or ordered a full enquiry.

But sure, Starmer commissioning Casey to head the National Audit, accepting all of the recommendations and setting up a national enquiry in less than 12 months is a whitewash 🙄

The £45k working person nonsense is a total PR mistep- they are clearly using it in place of 'working class', but their PR people absolutely need a slap with a wet kipper for that one. It's as ridiculous as Cameron's ' Hug a Hoody'.

As for breaking manifesto promises and scandals the Tories could go head to head with Labour on every single one and them some.

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

Have they? Please corroborate, because I assert this is incorrect.

BionicWomansAnkle · 11/11/2025 21:41

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 21:33

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

Have they? Please corroborate, because I assert this is incorrect.

It is incorrect, but take it from me that you will regret asking for corroboration. You will get tagged for days now with random facts about 1953 and Denmark.

thecalmsea · 11/11/2025 21:55

Where is the evidence, or even the statement, that they have used the money from 2 terms of VAT on school fees to invest in education, or even that they have plans to, or that it is in a budget somewhere?

I really don't think you can, because they haven't, there isn't, and the only statement they have made is that the money raised will go towards new house building targets - contrary to what they iniially claimed. Because Labour are chippy, vindictive, hypocritical liars.

Americasfavouritefightingfrenchman · 11/11/2025 22:31

Rhayader · 06/11/2025 23:10

My best guess is 2p on income tax but reduce NI by 2p so there’s no impact on working people. Only capital gains and pensioners would pay an extra 2p.

Then they will get rid of higher & additional tax relief on pension contributions. Increase (double?) council tax bills for G and H properties and consult on introducing a property tax. Gambling taxes introduced. Pay per mile on EV. Reduce threshold for inheritance tax.

This would be an absolute public relations nightmare for them as it would massively impact public sector defined benefit pensions, would impact people who earn under the higher rate threshold but are pushed over by thresholds and do jobs with a lot of public goodwill like nursing

Rhayader · 11/11/2025 22:41

Americasfavouritefightingfrenchman · 11/11/2025 22:31

This would be an absolute public relations nightmare for them as it would massively impact public sector defined benefit pensions, would impact people who earn under the higher rate threshold but are pushed over by thresholds and do jobs with a lot of public goodwill like nursing

Yeah I agree that it would be a nightmare! Maybe they would make an exemption for DB schemes

BloominNora · 11/11/2025 22:53

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 21:33

Whether you agree with private school VAT increase or not, they have done what they said they would and invested that money in state schools.

Have they? Please corroborate, because I assert this is incorrect.

VAT on private school fees was estimated to raise £460 million in 2024/25 and £1.51 billion in 2025/26

In real terms (to account for inflation) based on 2024/25 prices, core school funding for 5-16 year olds:

2010/11 - £49.9 billion
2021/22 - £57.7 billion
2022/23 - £58.0 billion
2023/24 - £57.7 billion
2024/25 - £61.6 billion
2025/25 - £62.2 billion

So in two years, an increase of £4.5 billion (7.8%) and £2.53 billion more than the VAT on private school fees will bring in and that doesn't include the additional funding that has been allocated for Early Years and Post 16.

That's an an average of 3.9% a year over the two years. If you just count the £2.53 billion excluding the VAT from public school fees, its still an increase of 4.4% or 2.2% average over the two years

Last government increased schools budgets by 18.4% over 14 years - an average of 1.3% per year.

Funding per pupil is also up 5% (2.5% per year average), which means the increased funding is not being swallowed up by increases in pupil numbers. The Tory's increased per pupil funding by 3.5% over 14 years - an average of 0.25% per year.

2010/11 - £7,370
2021/22 - £7,270
2022/23 - £7,570
2023/24 - £7,630
2024/25 - £7,920
2025/25 - £8,020

@thecalmsea - They may not have made a statement about it, or specifically ring-fenced the money, but the funding levels clearly reflect increases in school funding in excess of what is being collected in VAT on fees.

School funding statistics, Financial year 2024-25

School funding data for England, including trends in funding over time since 2010-11 and funding allocations of individual primary and secondary schools.

https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/school-funding-statistics/2024-25