Southport killer enabled by father

[crowsfeet57]

The evidence given by the school and the social worker highlighted how Axel Rudakubana's deteriorating behaviour was blamed on everyone else by his father. Now the father's own evidence is damning. surely this man should be charged as an accessory to the murders which he had many chances to prevent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20e8qd5d53t

So how do you treat evil?

The judge seems to think that if AR had been intervened with earlier, he wouldn’t have gone on to mass murder. Would he?

Didn’t work with the Tate Pusher. AR was a lot worse than that.

A) AR School did try to intervene firmly. When school staff tried to get help after AR trotted round with a knife aged 11 looking to finish a schoolmate, they were told they could be seen as racist because AR’s black, no idea re race of victim.

Beyond shameful given the school knew him. The truthful report was watered down.

B) Assuming that lethal mistake had not derailed the search to fix AR, he would have been taken into care but only after years of delays and failed extensions at home with the parents.

The Tate pusher was taken into care pretty quickly as he tried to kill the family females a lot. AR didn’t hurt his family - he needed them as accomplices.

C) So what happens in care? I don’t think there are foster parents who treat psychopathy or who can turn off the web.

Not sure therapists do either. Carers don’t.

Tate Pusher was 2:1 round the clock and he still carried out attacks.

AR needed to be in hospital (not least so his internet use could be adjusted) and doped to stop violence if he went out. Given most of us agree no one has the right to murder, he stays there till he stops the threats.

My source is Adrian Fulford who ran the public inquiry. I listened to him speak for about an hour, yesterday. His conclusions were quite clear.

What’s your agenda? I don’t understand your visceral response to my simple post.

I didn’t realise he had got a taxi to the dance class. That poor sod who drove him there, that’s a horrible thing to live with.

They need to change the law around this. There should be a legal mechanism to compel people to act. Mandatory reporting? Surely he's broken the law in accepting a knife for someone under 18? The whole thing is shocking.

House arrest for people at risk of harming others. They can maybe do some community service where they are strictly supervised and of course no access to vulnerable people. And perhaps some sort of strictly supervised therapy online and in person. Online access must be absolutely capped and in household where such individuals live access to the internet must be limited to safe content. So after AR went to his school with a knife when he was no longer a pupil there, he gets house arrest for a certain amount ofttimes. If he is seen ordering and keeping weapons as he was, house arrest should be extended and privileges such as internet access further reduced.

We are specifically talking about the parents themselves here.
Have you read their own words? How they lied? How they misled the school, police? How they fought intervention?

They knew exactly what their son was doing.

The mother saw the machete being delivered. Her fingerprints are on the packaging labelled knife, over 18 verification needed etc but now she tries to lie about it.

She saw her son leave the house that day and knew he had not been out of the house in his own for two years following the incident where he was caught on a bus carrying a knife and had told police he wanted to stab someone.

The father was aggressive to professionals trying to help.

He gave his son the money to buy weapons, to watch extreme violence.

This is well beyond your bog standard crap parenting, and I speak from experience of having worked in child protection.

Professional agency failures are already acknowledged but we are discussing the parent’s conduct.

The taxi driver saw what AR was up to and didn’t call police.

He fled and rang his BFF after a cuppa re a knifeman & telling him to avoid the area. He could have stopped AR.

It’s right taxi driver lives with himself.

You’ve made a statement that the parents were largely to blame, which is not backed up any news reports I’ve seen.

It may be a simple statement, but you still need to provide a source before you make such judgements on people.

If the inquiry has said the parents were largely to blame, it would have been reported by the press.

@GloiredeDijon
I'm not denying the parents role in all of this but the Police Social services MH teams are supposed to be able to deal with people who lie, inc parents... its core to their jobs.

Yes the discussion is about the parents enabling AR but i'm also allowed to disagree that its all on them.

On the pp who said "How do you treat evil?"

Well, lock them up, as we used too, in MH "hospitals" indefinitely, its very scary that we closed these places down, where are these people now?

We rely on self administered medications instead and short term stays.. all cost cutting, fair better to turn a Victorian Asylum into a Golf Club or housing.. as has happened to the institutions near me.

Ultimately services knew what the situation was. It was very well known. Nothing was done about it. Police were called many times, many safeguarding reports were raised. Everyone passed the buck - this has been heavily criticised. A child with very significant complex mental health difficulties who was very violent should not have been left to his parents to manage. If there were concerns about the parents' ability to manage an escalating situation then he should not have been at home. He needed intensive support and did not receive this. This is not something that could be fixed through 'parenting'. AR posed a major risk and this should have been taken seriously.

From the enquiry transcripts, the mother proved herself the stinkiest shit you’ve ever gagged at.

The mother lied, lied, got aggressive, lied and lied more over the years to stop health and education access for her son.

She wanted to watch tv in peace.

She lied in the enquiry. She lied to the school, the father, the police, you name it. She needs to be prosecuted.

Good luck in prison. She can watch tv there.

Oh no so many failings at so many points. Just awful.

It’s hideous, isn’t it.

The only thing that cheers me up is that most of the children’s saviours were unarmed women.

Says a lot.

So you’ll only believe it if it’s in the press? Despite what the head of the inquiry stated on live TV?

OK.

" A child with very significant complex mental health difficulties who was very violent should not have been left to his parents to manage. If there were concerns about the parents' ability to manage an escalating situation then he should not have been at home. He needed intensive support and did not receive this."

This.

Yes the parents are partly to blame but ultimately there are systems in place to deal with inadequate parents and those systems didn't do what they were supposed to do.

I have no doubt that his father filled his head with war stories, recent events in his life, the bloodshed etc.
My own DGP were always going back over the war years.
He was an aggressive man by nature, passing on the gene to a son who was clearly unwell and obsessive in his thinking and behaviour.
Will his father face any charges?

Nearly everything around him was trying harder to let it pass than the opposite.

From the police taking him home after picking him up with a knife where he smiles and says what he’ll do, they don’t arrest. The headteacher having to remove words, others saying don’t stereotype.

His ability to get where he did was smoothed at every turn. So bad.

Yep. The parents need prosecuting too.

You can’t have a society that lets people that complicit off the hook. People who hate their kids that much aren’t ideal either.

Interesting legal tests, too. One R child is OK, ie not a murderer. Pretty low bar, but worth exploring.

She's not going to go to prison, no matter how much you repeat it.

In that case quite a lot of people who are part of the inquiry should also go to prison!

It really isn't going to happen - the systemic issues are huge in this case.

The police are still ‘reviewing the files’ after three years so sadly for us all you’re spot on.

Legal system needs changing re parental duties but doubtless they’ll do it too late as per.

I'm actually really baffled that it is seen as acceptable for families to live with extreme violence from their children. What kind of society are we? Why was nothing done to protect the family too? It's a sad state of affairs when people do not recognise service failings.

No lessons have been learnt. There is many families living like this, hiding behind the walls, ashamed and helpless.
The other young man that killed his family over a video game, he was on his way to a school, he developed a Very popular game about school shoutings, he had all the signs.
There is 1000’s of these young men out there who are connecting online.

I’m going to be honest. While I think it’s absolutely possible for kids to be born ‘bad apples’, many parents stand by passively and let their child descend into a life of isolation and screen because it’s easier than doing some hard/boring parenting and getting them back on track before it goes too far. They allow boys to spend years cooped up looking at extreme pornography and extremist websites online, before making a panicked phone call to CAMHS when they realise it’s turned their son into a dangerous nasty piece of work.

Too little too late

In this case they didn't, they sought help. Ultimately services failed, this happens all the time, many things could have been done. Services knew what the situation was and that AR posed immense risk to everyone, including himself. That's undeniable.

The system is broken, newspaper headlines do not help as it deflects from the real issues - societal and that services just cannot cope and every service hopes that another service will pick up the pieces. The system is brutal for the vast majority of parents who seek help. AR's family should not have been expected to manage extreme violence by themselves. They did not know how to do this. They were expected to implement strategies that they knew would lead to escalation and which they had reported would lead to escalation as the situation was above and beyond 'behaviours'. They should not have been put in this position as it was highly dangerous. There was a lack of trust between the family and services - this is very common and they were probably scared and traumatised by their experiences.