Southport killer enabled by father

[crowsfeet57]

The evidence given by the school and the social worker highlighted how Axel Rudakubana's deteriorating behaviour was blamed on everyone else by his father. Now the father's own evidence is damning. surely this man should be charged as an accessory to the murders which he had many chances to prevent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20e8qd5d53t

In these situations they always are. If not enabled they’re excused, hidden, hopeful for a good outcome.
Services also enabled him, it wasn’t his first known attempt at extreme violence.
Even when families want to help, the support isn’t available until after the crime.

This is very true. People say that you have to be in crisis to get help. That's no longer true, you get no support in crisis.

Parents are often told that it's a boundaries issue. This can lead to escalation of violence yet the parents were still expected to do this even though it was unsafe. It can be very dangerous if a child has MH difficulties to take this approach.

There are different facts coming out on this thread than there are in newspapers.

But Merseyside Police is now reviewing the inquiry notes and will reconsider whether to refer to the CPS. From my limited knowledge, it does seem like they have a case to answer in court, even if they are ultimately found not guilty.

Really? I am not sure there stance is that different to ours. I only recall one instance recently where the father was held accountable in the USA for his son’s shooting.

But then at least the parents could have tried. I think it’s past time we called out parents who fail in their basic duties like this.

Where have you seen that? I have seen criticism of all the parents you mention and next to no sympathy.

There is no fear of being seen as racist by authorities. It’s often used as an excuse but the data suggests otherwise.

Mom & Dad enabled AR crucially - without them, he couldn’t have killed.

Small examples of how the parents stopped AR getting help:

Daddy was so physically aggressive to the psychiatrist trying to treat AR that she had to be replaced by a male doctor. Huge delay, no treatment.

Daddy refused to cooperate with psych medics or set boundaries with AR, resulting in treatment failing.

Daddy threatened school staff in person and via email (lots) when they wouldn’t allow AR back in for a repeat stab attempt.

Mom and Dad allowed AR to truant from new school but asked that he be kept on their attendance register so they could carry on getting AR’s benefit payments.

Mummy stopped social workers seeing AR again and again. She just barred the doorway. Shouted, etc..

After AR went on the bus with a knife aiming to kill and the police took
him home, mummy treated him to Macdonalds.

Parents bought and paid for the weapons.

AR never threatened or laid a finger on them - he needed them alive.

I find it hard to blame the family as we are looking at the situation with hindsight which they didn’t have. They were very frightened of him. There was that awful case a few weeks ago where that young man battered and stabbed his mother to death after keeping her shut in the house so it is very difficult to put yourself in their position.
My heart goes out to the little girls family though … it is heartbreaking.

I am confused “benefit payments”? Does this mean child benefit is stopped if your child is truant.

I think the judge tried to make allowance for that. He said in his statements that it is very easy to look at things with the benefit of hindsight and has even with considering that they failed remarkably.

No, child benefit is not stopped if your child is truant.

I suspect that there has been some scapegoating of the parents tbh. They were clearly unsupported, terrified, told to do things that could escalate the situation. And then criticised for not doing things that could put them in danger.

We need secure children’s hospitals back and a state agency that doesn’t let dangerous under-18s go off radar.

The parents must be prosecuted. If you read their words from the trial, their chilling indifference scared me more than the attack.

Good grief. Are you saying that this behaviour was OK because AR was autistic?

Being ND isn't in itself an excuse for bad behaviour or bad parenting.

I thought all this started around 12.

Secure units and children’s MH facilities still do exist.

I believe social services would potentially cover the second part, provided the family had involvement.

174 places in 🇬🇧. There’s more than that number of violent kids in London alone.

The judge is saying that SS risk assessments - not to the child, to others - should be done by a central agency who manages reports from schools, SS, etc..

It’s a start. AR was only referred to SS because they thought he was ‘vulnerable’ himself. You can be vulnerable and dangerous, it’s a common combo.

But given AR wasn’t mentally ill, what are you then going to do with him?

Care?
Custody?
Doctor?

GPs don’t treat evil. Foster parents can’t. And how long can you shut him up
for?

The parents were clearly desperate for help and gaslit every step of the way. The £40 for a shower was obviously because they were desperate. They clearly were not getting the right support. They should never be criticised for not wanting to escalate violence, being told it was failure to set boundaries is a fob off. They needed intensive and effective support and clearly did not receive it and were just left to it.

What is your source? I haven’t seen anything that says they were largely to blame. You are ignoring all the agencies that have been blamed.

Martial arts don’t stop the fear of being stabbed by a machete in your sleep by your paranoid schizophrenic son.

You really have zero clue what you’re on about.

Exactly. Lots of families live with a son who keeps knives in their bedroom. They live in a state of fear desperate to appease the schizophrenic.

There is no help.

The person leading the enquiry stated that authorities again amd again used Autism as an excuse for his violent behaviour, will there now be a change in attitude in dealing with this, When do parents need to seek help and advice from police re children showing extreme violence.

His teachers said they had a sense of dread, the headteacher said
a serious incident was waiting to happen. Knives taken to school- nothing done by police . Caught with a knife on the bus - nothing done by police.

Well exactly. So how on earth you think the parents should be prosecuted is beyond me.

You've posted yourself about how few residential places there are in the UK.

What, exactly, would you have had his parents do? Chain him up so he can't leave the house? Bearing in mind his parents already had to bribe him to do things like take showers, do you really think they'd have come to no harm if they'd tried to stop him?

As you say, what exactly would you have social services, doctors, and foster carers do? Why do you think his parents must have had some magic solution where the professionals don't?

AR was known to the police. After they found him on a bus with a knife he was returned to his parents with no further action taken. He was known to Prevent, which did nothing despite multiple referrals.

He was known to multiple agencies.

Even if his parents had called the police that day when he got in the taxi, what exactly do you think would have happened, bearing in mind he was not under any high-risk flags and hadn't actually committed any crime at that point - how fast do you think the police would have responded? Fast enough to find where he'd gone, identify the taxi he got into, and get to the dance class before he made his attack? How realistic do you really think it is that the police would have got there on time?

The only person responsible for what happened that day is AR.

The failings of our social care system and mental health support is the responsibility of multiple successive governments.