Southport killer enabled by father

[crowsfeet57]

The evidence given by the school and the social worker highlighted how Axel Rudakubana's deteriorating behaviour was blamed on everyone else by his father. Now the father's own evidence is damning. surely this man should be charged as an accessory to the murders which he had many chances to prevent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20e8qd5d53t

Rubbish
the inquiry is highlighting that the family obstructed services and withheld information -

SEN families clearly do struggle to access appropriate services and services are shockingly inadequate

but

it is also true that this family got in the way of services doing their jobs

that makes the family accountable for what happened

You were there were you? Why does it have to be just one contributing factor? Its a combination of things quite clearly and some were possibly within parents control and some weren't.

It could be that for all the intervention and discipline in the world, people's brains are just not wired up the same as most people's and they will always commit violent crime. There should be some sort of preventative pathway to keep the public safe in these cases and not waiting to commit crime. Planning an attack carries a prison sentence, this really ought to have been taken seriously by everyone when he was taking knives to school and buying ricin.

Quite often is the case for SEND is that if parents are caring for the child or youth, then they just get told to get on with it with minimal support. It is easier to cut resources for a cohort where there is someone caring for them and they have legal responsibility over their wellbeing, unlike adult to adult care, which is why children's services are poor. I basically got given a leaflet when my son was diagnosed with autism and GDD. I had to find our about my child's rights and services myself, and even then they were very guarded.

You have no idea how many times I have heard the "unprecedented demand for services" excuse. We also live in a judgemental system that only offers help in the most severe crises, so you literally have to say you aren't coping to get help. Naturally people are fearful of their children being taken from them when all they needed was early intervention and support.

https://www.southport.public-inquiry.uk/

for those of us ‘that was not there’ but still wish to participate in the discussion

you can't expect families to view their child like professional can

many are just doing their best to keep all the family safe

parents will defend their children, they will carry the guilt of what have they done wrong and many really struggle to accept how their child is

that for professionals to do and make decisions

What do you think the professionals view would be if the parents had actually told them he had weapons, terrorist training manuals and ricin in his bedroom, that he’d ordered in fake names using fake IDs, which his family had signed for?

The parents knew this, The professionals who would have had a record of his history of being expelled from school, mental health issues, violence, viewing violent content, prevent referrals and having a knife on a bus and saying he wanted to stab somebody, did not.

Maybe he wouldn’t have been discharged from CAMHS or maybe the police would have come to his house, confiscated the weapons and arrested him for the ricin and the manuals, or sectioned him once they’d seen the full contents of his room and tech which they would have checked due to the ricin and manuals.

Exactly - they don’t strike me as family trying to get help for their son …..

If there was more professional input the outcome may have been very different, families not working with services or being described as difficult, hostile is just part of the work

it isn’t an expectation for families to share all information, professionals are well aware that families are often in denial, have little understanding of mh issues, can be influenced by religious beliefs and will try to protect their children and by doing so often make the situation worse. Families will often view and experience professional teams that lack experience, lack coordinated team work (and at times hostility from teams)

I can absolutely understand the victims families feeling that AR’s parents should be held accountable but I am not in their terrible situation trying to make sense of such a tragedy

That’s a hard read. I’m so sorry this happened to those little girls. I think it’s the worst thing to happen and so many failed them.

The inquiry seems to hold the family to blame in part

In the USA the parents would probably be facing jail time.

I did wonder if the families might launch a civil case

If the family had told the police about the weapons what would they have done anyway? Said they are very sorry but they have to wait for a crime to be committed?

They already returned him to his family after he committed an arrestable offence. The police were not interested and neither was anyone else interested in helping the family.

Yes. I heard some of the comments today. The person leading was very critical of the parents and the agencies involved. He said the school, who he praised did the right thing in expellinig him. He frequently took knives to school. This was reported to the police and nothing was done. A huge failure all round. Attiudes need to change.

This. It's an absolutely fucking shitshow out there with public services.

There was a stark difference in the way AR's parents were sympathetised with and the Mother of the 13 year old, who stupidly joined a riot, was talked about. She was castigataged across the press, on here and by the judge in court, as is typical of how single, poorer, white mothers are viewed, no appreciation of her possible struggles. Yet the parents of a mass murderer, who ignored what was in the packages and left their son to it? Nothing but excuses.

This.

How awful. So easy to have sex and bring a child into the world
Actually bringing them up and managing them is another story.

A great advert for not having any children this is and other crimes like this

The naivety is of people not knowing how little help there is out there for parents who need it. Often none at all.

And the parents should have 100% called the police earlier

THEY DID.

I read the BBC coverage of the inquiry and it‘s quite clear how the killer’s family kept crucial information quiet (mother denies seeing the knives but her fingerprints were found on one of the blade packagings), father worried that AR „will be taken away“ if they paint the true picture of the extent of their sons mental state.

Those parents have the blood of three young girls on their hands. As do the authorities who did nothing to stop this happening. More children killed and yet again - no one from social services to police actually gets held accountable - absolutely shameful.

Well there’s been a full public enquiry which will have considered everything and it reached the conclusion that his parents were largely to blame. I don’t know why those of us with much less information would dispute that?

There have been several threads in recent weeks where mothers are being subjected to abuse at the hands of their children (some with SEN, some not) and they're basically told on those threads "there is no help, have you tried doing X routine or making them a sensory room". I don't mean to be flippant, but the facts are that there is very little help available.

I can only imagine that had ARs parents posted here they would have had very similar advice.

It is always easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight and with no emotional attachment to the killer - his parents were in a situation few of us could ever comprehend.

In Adrian Fulfords own words, the parents were met with a "merry-go-round of referrals, assessments, case-closures and hand-offs".

Until there are better options for those who have children like AR (and I mean things like more available secure residential care units, not a home visit every month), then this sort of incident risks a repeat.

Whilst thats true, AR also came into contact with child MH services and they did little to help.

Its not helpful to blame the parents, for what is a very sorry state of affairs within NHS MH services.

Remember this is on top of the Nottingham murders where 3 other victims were let down by the state.

Yes, I suspect the fear of being accused of racism played a part in the inaction of the agencies involved. Likewise with Valdo Calicane, the Nottingham killer. These two should have been indefinitely detained from a young age.

But people in the public sector would rather put the public in danger than run the risk of being called racist. I worked in the public sector so this mindset is familiar.

(Not everyone in the public sector is like this, but the fear of being accused of racism is real).

I agree. It's a repeat of the Valdo Calicane case and I doubt it will be the last.