17yr old boy found guilty of child abuse

[Ikeasucks]

Aibu to be pissed at how many women here were so scathing and dismissive of those in the past who said we weren’t comfortable with our babies/toddlers/very young children having male carers in a nursery setting or as a nanny etc? We were told condescendingly how ignorant and bigoted we were - i don’t fucking care at how right in you are and superior i still feel the same way www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o?at_medium=social&at_link_type=web_link&at_format=video&at_link_origin=BBC_Surrey&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=4FF97A8E-B8A8-11F0-A794-E0B1162F2AD3

Then your trainer was making things up. There is not a single statistic anywhere that indicates this is the case. Men are overwhelmingly over represented as child sex offenders compared with women. This is despite women having more access to children.

At my children’s nursery there was never a member of staff alone when personal care was being done. One staff member stayed in the changing area and another member brought two in at a time and they changed them alongside each other (with a small partition between the children) but staff could see everything that happened. Really thought this was common practice since there have been high profile cases.

I don’t think we should discourage men from the caring professions- but procedures should be solid and funding adequate to ensure they are in place.

Exactly, and I had a baby in hospital for months. Two male nurses who routinely cared for him and certainly would have done intimate care if needed. The one guy was gay and that really seemed to increase his perceived risk, quite a few parents insisted on a female nurse and he was very coy about his sexuality as a result. He was an excellent nurse.

But your risk assessment is based on "it's happened in nursery so no men should be allowed". By that basis all the other examples given on here would be considered as unsafe for men to do.

Risk vs reward will be different in each of those circumstances.
The exist of a male nurse doesn't mean men changing nappies in a nursery is a necessary risk to take.

Children of nursery age being cared for, often intimately, in the absence of their parents are highly vulnerable, so their risk is greater than that of a child sitting with their male teacher in a classroom and who won't be taken to the
toilet or undressed by that teacher.

my comment was in response to your quote - children are taken to the toilet and have personal care carried out by male staff at schools.

Most nurseries don't have the staffing available for 2 to do toileting, especially if only 3 staff in the room.

Even with 4 staff, if you're outside with 20 two year olds and one needs the toilet or has an accident, you couldn't have two staff go inside.

And nursery classes often only have a teacher and a TA of course.

Oh don’t be so fucking ridiculous. What about the woman who killed a baby in a nursery? Or the one who was on trial for pinching and hitting children in a nursery?

Not all men. Please don’t insult people’s intelligence by pretending you really believe the bollocks you’re spouting.

When the police do racial profiling in London for weapon stops, there is still a much higher chance of a black male having a weapon than a white male, even when they stop 50% white to 50% black, when the population is not 50/50.

We profile due to there being a greater risk in that group of people. We do not do it for laughs.

Men pose a much higher risk of violent and sexual offenses, therefore we would assume that most people who murder, rape, assault would be men.

Do they? Ours certainly didn't. There is a lead Nursery Teacher and then probably 3 or 4 TAs. Reception has one teacher, a senior TA and at least one other TA. Year one upwards is one teacher and one TA but odd classes have extra ones where necessary

So why is a male paeds nurse a necessary risk to take? Or a male teacher in a SEN school?

Different scenarios = different risk assessments.

Suggesting that we can know who is an abuser and who isn’t is exactly the kind of rhetoric that allows child abuse ti happen.

She wouldn’t do it she’s a girl
Hes so passionate about football that’s why he coaches the team
Oh no he’s gay it’s fine
Hes been doing this for 20 years and never been accused, it must be a lie.

The first and most basic rule of safeguarding is you can never know. Policies and procedures, along with high quality training are the ONLY things that will protect you.

He raped a child and took pictures. How, in any modern nursery, could this possibly happen? How is he alone for long enough to become erect, remove part of his own clothing, commit the act and feel confident that no one would walk in? How has he got his phone on him? I’ve worked in nurseries and sent my children to 3 different ones due to house moves - in every single one the nappy changing space is out in the open in the bathroom - children and adults are walking through all the time. It wouldn’t be physically possible for an adult to abuse in the toilets.

In the case of Vanessa George (also in a nursery) a dreadful person committed crimes. But those crimes were ALLOWED to happen by horrendous failings in that nursery.
She repeatedly took children into cubicles alone. She was challenged but staff didn’t take it further cos she was mates with boss. Staff were not well trained - they didn’t see her inappropriate sexual stories as red flags. They didn’t know who to go to when the boss did nothing. They didn’t insist on keeping cubicle doors open or even see shutting the door as odd behaviour. They trusted George.
The boss did not ensure standards were being met or that training was given. She openly favoured some staff.

Lucky you, one teacher and a TA for 26 three and four year olds is very common.

@5128gap she was an expert in her field, and this was also supported years later with one of my lecturers on a masters .

But not supported by any statistics.

Do the women here who think I’m unreasonable also carry your views through to this x.com/therealmissjo/status/1988119365028307240?s=46&t=UMi_ppDxCnyx5FZ0ilMCpQ

Where do you draw the line, would you not allow men to join the police as they are more likely to commit a crime like Wayne Couzens.
Or School caretakers… Not a job for a man incase he is like Ian Huntley?

But these roles do not give you unlimited 1-2-1 access to patients and children.

Caretakers will be rarely alone with children, if ever. Police officers are very rarely alone with members of the public, and they are even less likely to be alone with elderly people with dementia, or with children, unsupervised.

Ian Huntly attacked the girls in an open and public space, same as Wayne Couzens. (Both terrible and awful, but there isn't the same correlation).

Men who work in nurseries absolutely would have access by themselves with children, who are unable to talk and understand. This is the same for men in care homes, who would have 1-2-1 access to elderly patients including those who cannot speak, understand or communicate.

That needs to change.
Realistically there is no way on earth that our law makers or government are going to vote in a law banning men from certain jobs.
To me it makes more sense to change the rules around how nurseries are run, it’s criminal that it was even possible for babies to be abused in this way.

I was asking also about male carers being sent to vulnerable women’s homes as carers or in nursing homes - carrying out personal care to our most vulnerable women - those with disabilities and the elderly/dementia patients etc. is there anywhere you draw the line

My DM was offered a male carer and was able to say no, and did, this was fully respected.

Do we assume male primary school teachers are all predators too?

Yes.