Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

[margegunderson]

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

Well, after that massive sigh of relief you undoubtedly had, on hearing this person was a British national, you might want to consider that we may have a worrying problem with 2nd generation immigrants who wish to commit mass murder on the country that took in their parents.

Shouting the R word will not cure this problem.

Daylight is the best disinfectant, maybe taking a closer look at the parents of these criminals might clarify things.

Away with your Scolding middle class voices nonsense. Reductive, patronising rubbish. There are plenty MC racists. And plenty of non racist working class people like me.

If posters don't like their racism being challenged, they shouldn't post racist shite. Being silent in the face of racism does no one any favours.

You might want to consider that we may have a worrying problem with a lack of mental health resources. Because we do.

Ignoring racism will not cure this problem.

Considering most of the criminals on my list (earlier post) had no discernible mental health issues, other than a blind hatred of innocent men/women/children of the United Kingdom, I would say the racist accusations you are so ready to hand out are aimed at the wrong people.

If we accept your premise that these people had no discernible mental health issues, other than a blind hatred of people from the UK, then perhaps we need to dig more deeply into the question of why those people might have ended up hating the UK so much - the country where their parents proactively chose to build their lives.

I noticed.

I notice it a lot.

Do you need me to list white British born mass murderers with severe MH problems @Savemydrink?

The UK has a MH crisis and a male violence problem and those with a racist agenda are exploiting this to sow even more fear and division. Pretending this is a race problem is wrong. It is a UK problem.

First they came for Muslims.

Then they came for 'illegals'.

Then they came for legal migrants.

Now it's second generation immigrants.

If anyone thinks they are safe from the supremacists they are nuts.

They will turn on all of you.

I didn't see those threads but I initially thought possible MH until it was reported that there were two attackers and then I wondered if it was terrotism. From recent history those two outcomes would be the most likely. And didn't discuss with anyone except briefly with OH. It's not worth making conclusions about any ongoing investigation - recent history shows how some people can jump to the wrong conclusions.

Sadly now see that the suspect may be linked to other offences.

This isn't the subject of my post, my posting history or this thread.

I don't even really know what you're talking about as you haven't made it clear in relation to anything. You just sound very angry that I have posted the truth.

One man’s truth is another man’s propaganda.

I don't understand what you mean.

I have screenshots of posts saying all these things that have not been taken down.

I agree with your confusion re "one mans truth is another mans propaganda"

I think the alternate form, " one mans truth is another mans lie" works better. But this statement has issues too.

Because not all propaganda is lies. And at the same time, truth is supposed to be absolute.

And I think with subjects such as knife crime, the truth often can't actually be known.

Yes of course, police data etc is true, and is published, but we can never know for sure how well anti knife crime campaigns work. For sure, a campaign can show a reduction in recorded data, truth, but there will always be interpolation required for things such as lives saved by a campaign.

I am not referencing any PP here when I suggest this, but it's this interpolation part that conspiricists latch onto. They say "you do not know for sure, you made it up, you guessed, so it is not true"

My head hurts now. But seriously. propaganda is an armchair interest of mine. I have also debated a lot of flat earthers online, and the " one mans truth...." line is a classic gaslighting technique.

Ah ok. Thankyou.

Totally agree. If MN started of as a safe place for women, it certainly isn't going to be a safe place for ethnic minority women if racism is allowed to spew forth on threads in such a disgusting way.

MN needs to take responsibility and crack down on the horribly bigoted posts that are increasing on here, particularly against Muslims and refugees.

Why aren’t Mumsnet moderating properly?

I felt the same way about a thread on small boats recently. A lot of racist and xenophobic posts there.

I knew this particular story would whip up hatred against black people as soon as they released the perpetrator’s race.

To be honest, yes I personally do view these events as terrorism. I appreciate now it may not fit the actual definition of terror but if someone is out killing random, unknown-to-them people on a rampage I think it's an act of terror.

I think the Plymouth shooting was terrorism was it not? Wasn't he an incel targeting women and children?

Terrorism does not mean Islamic terrorism. I should know as I grew up in Belfast!

But apparently those threads were racist, not just some people who incorrectly thought the attack was terrorism, as has already been said on here.

And while 500,000 little girls were raped and tortured by Pakistani Muslims for 30 years, by first and second generation immigrants, people like you closed their eyes and ears, with a nothing to see here mentality.

Please evidence your figure of 500,000 little girls?

Or is this just more misinformation (inflammatory lies).

“Domestic terrorism involves violent, criminal acts committed by individuals or groups within their own country to further domestic ideological goals, such as political, religious, racial, or social aims. It is defined by the location of the perpetrators and targets, and the motivations often stem from domestic influences rather than foreign groups.”

Please explain how I am misrepresenting your posts.

You said:

Tundeira · Today 06:55
There was a thread posted a few weeks ago decrying summer internships that try to improve diversity in some workplaces. The general theme was, ‘My white son can’t get a place so these schemes are bad and need to be abolished’. Do we want people from deprived communities to see these jobs as realistic options, reducing involvement in drug dealing and crime in general, or do we want to keep them as an underclass we can look down on and complain about?

My point to you was that white people are in deprived communities too and also deserve those ‘realistic options’.

I pointed out that discrimination action based on the colour of someone’s skin is unlawful. Excluding white boys from deprived areas from internships designed to help kids from deprived areas is unlawful. I have you a real life example of how this works in court. You continued to claim it is ok.

Generally, if I as a poster has fundamentally misunderstood your point, you would correct me and explain or qualify your point. But you didn’t. Now you are insinuating I am doing something bad.

I have no idea why you are pushing this particular point, especially on a thread about racism, other than to rather perfectly illustrate that often ‘anti racists’ are actually fine with racism or discrimination if it is against white people.

Like the ‘anti racist’ PPs on a number of threads happily chucking around a racial slur against white people while calling us all racists for discussing immigration. It’s very odd.

.

Eh? What does that have to do with anything?

The point is that in that first thread many people were saying it was clear that the attacker was a person who had arrived on a small boat and the small boat crossings pose a huge threat to all our safety. The fact that this person was U.K. born shut them up.

It’s not that U.K. born people can’t do this, but that people were so quick to blame migrants.

I mean:
The Jay Report (Rotherham, 2014) estimated at least 1,400 children were sexually exploited in that town alone between 1997 and 2013. Just in one town.
So it’s a huge figure.
Estimates are tens of thousands rather than hundreds, but that doesn’t make any of it less appalling.