Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

[margegunderson]

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

The majority of them won’t reflect - to do so requires the ability to think and that seems to be a quality sadly lacking in many. Much easier to leap to conclusions, salivating and apportioning blame before any facts are known.
What a sad way to live life

Given the way that the attack unfolded, I think that marauding terrorist attack seemed like a reasonable assumption. The emergency services felt the same.

But I don't understand the desire to attempt to fill in the blanks in such a rush on social media.

The racists have gone very quiet on my local Facebook pages after some disgusting comments after the event. I must have thankfully missed the comments you're referring to on here

Sure but the PP stated that ‘he was suffering delusions’ - sounded like they had read that somewhere. I was asking where they’d seen that. Unless they’re just speculating.
Which would be ironic.

Two things struck me about that post - a vocal Jewish Mumsnetter who has claimed on other threads she doesn’t hate Muslims….. openly convinced the attacker was a Muslim, accompanied by vile, racist comments about muslims

secondly the truly mindless football fans comments. As a Liverpool fan I’ve had that sort of bollocks all my life and it gave me the rage.

I didn't post anything. When I heard two people had been arrested, my heart sank thinking it must be terror related and imagining the things that would be said about certain communities.

I had dinner with some friends last night and got a lot of "let me guess, I bet they were..."

They were disappointed to learn their prejudices were wrong. These are reasonably bright people, who I've liked and respected for a long time. Something has gone very badly wrong recently 😪

You forgot to consider the impact of social exclusion, including racial discrimination (Rudakabana). Rudakabana is autistic and obsessions are a common component of autism. Unfortunately his was violence. It is also possible that as first-generation immigrants his parents did not know how to get Rudakabana the help he needed. That’s difficult enough for people who’ve always lived here and have an extensive social network to advise them.

Well it’s not an unreasonable line of thought you had, because for two people to be involved suggests some kind of agenda or wider group. Any profiler would say the same.

I 100% agree. Appalling

The legal definition of terrorism requires the act (of which there are a fixed number of ‘acts’ for the purpose of this definition) to be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause. You don’t have to be ‘from a different place or of a certain religion’. You can be from anywhere and be trying to advance any political, religious, racial or ideological cause. Until we have concrete evidence about the persons motivation for this attack, it cannot be considered to be terrorism. People being scared to live their normal lives is a consequence of terrorism, but you cannot use this to define whether an act is terrorism or not because it can’t be measured and different crimes and actions will affect everyone differently. Witnessing or being involved in any crime can change the way you live your life.

@Randomlygeneratedname its because to be officially an act of terror there has to be an ideology behind it. Someone in a mental health crisis, or even an angry rampage isn’t terrorism in terms of the official definition.

That definition is important as it guides the types of resources and response, such as the threat level being increased

I don’t know how to vote. I think YABU to expect anyone with blatantly racist views to reflect on their words. I live in NI. We have peace. But the real views in some people’s heads which often make it onto the anonymous cesspool that is social media are very scary indeed. There are people out there who thrive on hatred. Pathetic Neanderthals who need to feel part of a gang to give their lives meaning. It could take generations to make a dent in that sort of ignorance.

I think it is still a bit soon for any speculation. We were told yesterday that it was being treated as a terrorist incident, but then later we were told that it wasn't one. This is simply because we seem to define terrorism as having to have some sort of organised ideological foundation - political or religious. I am not sure that holds water. It was certainly a terrorising activity, which begs the question whether our definition is too narrow.

All violent crime is a terrorising activity, including domestic violence. There is a clear difference between terrorising activity and terrorism. This was not the latter.

We were never told it was being treated as a terrorist incident as far as I’m aware. At one point we were told that counter terror police were providing assistance, but not that they actually thought it was terrorism.

Exactly, I’ve faced this battle when my DS was little, it’s brutal and incredibly complex
add in the potential for parents for whom English may be a second language., lack of any adequate services for child mental health support in this country, and some perceived shame around men admitting to mental health issues

I didn't see the posts, so this is my first comment.

I don't think you can blame people for considering a terrorist attack. The incident was attended by terror police, and they were involved until such time as it was clear, and they have now declared it not to be.

So, it's the default with our front line too, in this sort of incident, to look at all possibilities.

@Libellousness - just a quick Google if massive stabbing attacks brings up many including April 24 Marcus Monzo who killed a young black child, but was in fact white.

Colour has nothing to do with it and it is WRONG to mention this and is not a common denominator.
The definition of terrorism has been laid out by others which was interesting - or it’s a case of evil versus mental health issues.

Mentioning colour is racist.
XY chromosome seems to be the main link from what I can see of all these attacks.

The head teacher of Rudakabana's school has said she was asked by social workers when he transferred to her school to modify her notes about him. She had said she had never met a pupil so preoccupied with violence. The social workers were unhappy about a black boy being stereotyped. This sounds like the same dynamic as the one at work in rape gangs, and an unintended consequence of multiculturalism.

I think the other guy got arrested simply because he was black too. Which is not a good look for the police.

Some MNers were very strident that it was two asylum seekers that did it and it was a terror atrocity.

I wonder if they are still stridently insisting that’s the case?

Ok - have just seen the comment I was referring to has been deleted as racist. Good.

The police arrested two people though one turned out to be an innocent bystander. So it's true they didn't technically give out wrong information.

It was the fact that the reports were of two people arrested that made me wonder how it could not be terrorism. One person - lots of possibilities from mental health to domestic violence.
Two people - suggests some level of planning or organisation.

When you go round stabbing people on a train its definitely a terror attack.

He was white but not British.