Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

[margegunderson]

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

Sorry, you 'feel' that there are 3-4 Lee Rigby-style events per week? There either are, or there aren't - it's hardly a matter of opinion is it?

If you really believe that hundreds of people a year are being murdered by islamic terrorists in the UK then where is your evidence?

The whole thread was full of rubbish. The op who took it upon herself to blame “shitty Newcastle fans” who are apparently known for this type of behaviour should apologise.

It’s not ok to blame any community/individual without the facts and that includes Football fans.

At the very beginning, there was nothing to suggest the suspected attacker(s) were not white. There was nothing reported on their ethnicity. Their ethnicities were only revealed later by the police to try to combat misinformation. The original news that came out was simply that people had been stabbed, it was on an LNER train that had stopped at Huntingdon, and two people had been arrested. So tell me why did people believe it was terrorism, unless race was assumed and that was linked to religion via unconscious (or for some, definitely conscious) bias?

The poster on one of the other threads who claimed it was possibly football fans was also speculating, and wrong, and this is why it was frustrating that people were jumping to conclusions and then refusing to back down to wait for details to be released. The person who said they hoped it was a white British man was also shouted down because most sensible people agreed that that kind of thinking was no better than hoping it was immigrants. Divisive and unnecessary.

I was burgled by a white man, I was seriously sexually assaulted by a white man, a family member had their face smashed in by three white men when out in town, and every day I see reports of stabbings, child sex abuse, rape, house break ins and domestic abuse in our local press and the majority of the offenders are white. What conclusions if any, should I draw?

Nope, but I didn't post anything awful. Kudos to the train driver for acting quickly and getting the train diverted to Huntingdon though, and thoughts for the LNER staff member who's still in critical condition in hospital, and for the man who got stabbed while shielding a young girl. They both put their own lives at risk to protect others.

I definitely feel like we've (Mumsnet) has been infiltrated by bots and bad faith actors who just want to stir the pot though. It's tiresome. It happens enough on the FWR boards, it doesn't need to infect the rest of the site.

joined specifically to say no way will they reflect!

I never saw the thread. What I take away from this is now the police have to quickly post nationally, skin colour, sex and relation to any religion etc of suspect/s if a horrific attack happens to satisfy the pitchfork mob.

The worst thing is the palpable sense of disappointment from some quarters that this isn’t a terrorist attack. No thought for the victims, just rabid desire to get themselves more “ammunition”. Some people are as thick as mince and truly horrible people.

Getting on a train is as normal as it gets really and now people have to worry about mass stabbings

They really don't. There are about a billion and a half train journeys each year. This was literally a one in a billion event. Which is why it was such huge news.

Was there evidence presented that the perpetrators of the Nottingham and Southport attacks were cannabis users? Or have you inferred that from their race?

Couldn't the conversation equally be why Black people in the UK seem to struggle to access mental health support, even when they have diagnoses, are known to authorities, and their families are trying to get help?

I'm still seeing a lot of crap on FB where people say its all Starmer and Khan's fault (somehow), calling for deportations and elections and spewing hatred and disinformation. These people are wither bots or so insane they can't read/ dont want to accept anything that does not support their grim world view. I doubt any of those will reflect on anything.

I actually think the majority of the worst posters across all social media are paid bots - either from far east, China or Russia working to destabilise our country.

I didn't see any threads or SM but DH and I discussed it. We couldn't fathom out why two people would be running rampage if it wasn't a terrorist attack. One nut case, yes, easy to explain, but two together?
Obviously it wasn't two but we didn't know that and the police gave out wrong information.

I think youand I are probably opposite politically, but it takes guts to admit to a mistake, especially on MN. I respect you for that.

If you read the news they did say eye witnesses referred to one person. The other guy got arrested because he probably was travelling with the nutter/ sitting next to him.

And some of those bots are definitely firmly established on MN.

I have seen a lot of questions around this. Terrorism does not mean inciting terror. All violent events incite terror in one way or another. Terrorism definition (UK) is;

as the use or threat of one or more [of the] actions [listed below], and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

For more details: Terrorism | The Crown Prosecution Service

I don't think the police did give out wrong information. A terrorist attack has to involve committing acts of violence in support of a cause. The police must therefore have ascertained that ghis attack didn't involve a cause.

I appreciate that MNHQ doesn't want to be accused of preventing free speech, but those two threads were horrific. It horrified me that so many people were stirring up hatred to such an awful degree. The overt racism was horrible to see, and there should have been many, many deletions if Mumsnet police were to police their own rules.

It was disgusting. People sitting behind the anonymity of the internet spouting evil and toxic crap.
Drives me mad when people come up with theories and speculation like that too.
I posted yesterday morning that thoughts should be with the injured, their families and those on that train rather than speculating. Someone jumped on that saying I was trying to deflect. The thread was full by the time I saw that and a lot more information had been made public. Ridiculous.

Has it been confirmed that he was suffering mental health issues? Where is that please, only seen the BBC latest saying he’s been charged but doesn’t mention motivation.

That's something that will come up at trial, not initial reporting. Quite obviously, someone's mental health status is private unless it is part of their defence.

However, eye witnesses say he was shouting "kill me" to the police, which isn't exactly the hallmark of a balanced mind. Neither is stabbing 10 strangers.

Those threads were absolutely awful and too many posters were proudly sharing their racist views and Muslim hate. Funny how the popularity of the threads died down once it turned out it wasn’t a Muslim migrant.

The stories that some posters came up with to justify their hate was crazy. Awful awful people.

I didn't speculate.
I thought it would either be terror or mental health related, both were reasonable possibilities. The fact that there were 2 arrests added some weight to the terrorism hypothesis.
It was never likely to be football fans though as the first few pages of that thread seemed to be pushing.

Oh everything is Khan’s fault. A Muslim will maybe shoplift on the other side of the country and posters will still find a way to blame Khan.

I agree. Also, not once did MNHQ go onto the threads to calm things down. They should have.