to not want to live with a person with poor mh

[SnooperLoopy]

I grew up with a clinically depressed mother who also has some sort of personality disorder arising from a neglected childhood. We always had to tiptoe around her moods and pander to her. She dictated everything - what TV shows we watched, where we went on holiday, the topic of conversation, who came to the house etc. In many ways she loved us as best she could but she really was difficult to live with and I left home as soon as i could and spent my twenties seeing as little of her as possible. I do now see her every week, but I try to manage her in small doses as that is easier.
Now my older teenage son is showing signs of depression and absolutely dictates the household mood. Sometimes I can't wait for him to grow up and move out. As much as i love him, I don't want to spend any more of my life walking on eggshells over another (irrational and selfish) person's moods. But in the current economic climate I fully expect him to come back and live with us after university. How can I cope with this?

I fully expect to be flamed but I suspect anyone who has experienced what i am talking about will sympathise and some solidarity / encouragement would be appreciated.

He is your child. You love him and find a way to support him even if it's hard for you.

This doesn't mean letting him dictate the household in the same way as your mum, but it does mean looking for ways to support him and to help him access appropriate professional help.

Mental health is a funny thing. Sometimes it stems from past experiences, sometimes it appears to be genetic, other times it appears to come out of the blue. Every parent should be prepared to handle their children suffering from poor mental health, but this is especially true if you know you have a family history.

A couple of my DH's family members suffer from a mental health condition and I'm very conscious of this when I'm bringing up my young DC. We do lots of work of managing our emotions, mindfulness, and resilience. If they become unwell at any age I will do everything I can to help them.

In your shoes, I'd start looking for practical ways to support him now rather than worrying about the effect on you if he's depressed as an adult. Does he need therapy? Do you talk about emotions as a family? Could you encourage him to start a hobby? What's your family's diet like?

It reads like you see this as his problem. It's not, he's a teenager and it's something you need to address with him as his parent.

@GehenSieweiter

I agree some of the commentary has been unnecessarily harsh and judgemental.

The OP's tone here is strikingly dispassionate here though: its very unusual, when confronted with the prospect of mental illness in a child, that your first thought is how to avoid it. It does sound like either trauma or neurodiversity. I think she needs to prepare herself for both her and her son's benefit.

Living with someone with a MH problem can be hell on earth. Not helped my the fact that all the sympathy and understanding is heaped on the ill person and you get shamed for not wanting to 'support' them (often aka being their victim and emotional punch bag). This is far worse when the ill person is your child because its now acceptable (even encouraged) to blame parents for their treatment of us.
That said, I think you do need to try and seperate your mother from your DS. Not only is there no reason to think his MH problems will follow the same pattern, but, as a child you were powerless, as an adult less so. As an adult you can seek support and help for yourself. You can set boundaries (and it's ok to do that). I'd contact a MH support agency. There are groups aimed at families.

I wonder if her tone is part of some sort of perceived barrier of self protection?

In fairness to the OP, she is asking how to cope with it. Of course she 'wants' to avoid it. Anyone who has lived with someone's MH issues dominating and ruining their childhood would prefer to avoid having someone else's dominating and ruining the rest of their life.
However there is no sense that OP intends to avoid it. As i read it, she is asking how to cope so that she can offer her son a home while also protecting herself. Which I think is a realistic approach to take.

People being overly harsh or nasty aren't helping anyone though.
Honesty, appropriate. Shaming or blaming, not appropriate.

He’s your young son. My god daughter has MH problems, so I do know something of how difficult it can be to live with. It’s overwhelming but you have to support and help him. Please get professional help for him as soon as you can.

Of course it does. Its about trying to remain in control when you feel like you're spiraling out of control.

Seriously. How to dismiss standard MH behaviors, because you've never heard of them.🙄

I really do sympathise, I am in a quite similar position. I love my son and i have changed my whole life to support him. There are times of huge loss, resentment and sadness though, and I do feel trapped in a situation I swore I would never be in again. Anyone else I would leave or put up stronger barriers, but with him I won't.
I would say though that things may really change for your son, if he is able to access the right support (I know that's not easy).

I think this focus on the unwell person being the ONLY one that matters carries across all illnesses and disabilities. I've seen first hand lives absolutely ruined and the carers own health destroyed by looking after others. And if they dare complain they're just selfish. In families with a disabled child, it's always the other children I feel sorry for as very often their needs are completely irrelevant.

Yes, I agree. I think carers are treated appallingly by our society. We only need to consider the pittance that is the 'earnings replacement' benefit of carers allowance to see that.
Women (it's almost always women) are manipulated into believing they should do more and more, sacrificing their health, happiness and wellbeing on the alter of someone else's health or disability, and should they dare to voice any needs of their own, they are framed as unloving and unnatural. Society exploits our love for those close to us by forcing us to fill the gaps left by inadequate services.

Yes.
I friend of mine gave up her job and moved in with her elderly mum to look after her. Her mum had made her promise not to put her in a care home (utterly selfish of the mum imo, I would never do this to my children). Anyway, six years later, looking after her mum full time, who by now had screaming dementia, and my friend a broken shadow of herself, was told by a visiting nurse that she was doing a great job looking after her mum and as long as her mum was OK, that was the only thing that mattered.
Another friend grew up with a disabled brother who had screaming violent meltdowns. She spent her entire childhood on eggshells not to upset her brother and if there was ever any conflict of interest in what she wanted/needed or what her brother wanted/needed, her brothers needs came first 100% of the time.
I don't want to sound like I'm blaming the ill/disabled person (although in truth I do blame my friends mum for putting this on her) the people around them matter as well though and are often just seen as collateral damage. If fact they're not even seen as collateral damage because they're completely irrelevant and not even noticed except to be called selfish should they complain.

She hasn't neglected or shunned him. You're making things up and your post was vitriolic, just as PP said.

Completely agree with the above. No negative comments from me OP. I have a child with significant MH issues/possibly a PD. It can be very very hard especially when you are being used as an emotional punchbag/your whole life/house is controlled by their anxiety but you daren't complain as that makes you selfish.
Even though it is very hard there will be boundaries that you can put in place even though this will initially make things ten times worse, it does help.

Thanks for all of the responses. I don't think I am cold and dispassionate - I have a formal writing style.
I cry most days for my lovely son who sometimes seems to have forgotten how to smile, or to do nice things for himself. There are days he doesn't eat, exercise or sleep and when we suggest any of those things might improve how he feels, he says he doesn't deserve to feel better.
It impacts us all, and I massively resent having to arrange my life around another mental illness. I just do. I appreciate the insight that I have unresolved trauma, but I don't know how I would even start to unpack it - I feel like I might never stop if I start down that route.
We are obviously seeking help for him but there is a limit when CAMHS is under such strain, and there are only very limited (as he is still under 18) or very expensive options for private care.

I would also hate this. When we have children we do run the risk of them having a disability which makes our lives hell as we then become lifelong carers instead of enjoying them.

I'm fortunate to have healthy kids and their mental wellbeing is top priority. They're young but I work on this all the time. I try to find out and understand what makes them happy and what may make them intrinsically happy in the future.

It's so easy to spiral into a depressive state in this day and age.

The internet has amplified:
bullying
low self-esteem, negative feedback loops
suicide and social proof that this is the answer
violence towards others and self-harm

Kids aren't inherently safe. They're always in danger.

What makes him happy? What has made him happy in the past? What does he want to do with his life?

Happiness comes from things like purpose, love and friendship, enjoyable experiences, things to do and hope for.

Does he have these covered? Have you tracked this stuff over his life at all?

You owe it to him to learn to manage his moods without it impacting everything else that happens at home. If he is dictating everything like your mum did.

But maybe he isn't doing that, but your response to him is what has that impact?

Op you need not to cry over him every day and immerse yourself in his pain. You need to manage this situation in a more -for want of a better word - business like manner. If he had a broken leg or a stomach ache it would be ridiculous to cry every day over his pain. What would not be ridiculous would be to investigate the best ways to arrange for diagnosis and treatment, quickly.

Your clearly traumatising and extremely poor experiences.as your mother's daughter are completely colouring your response here. Which I don't blame you for (I endured a similar childhood, though probably not as extreme as yours, and if leaves you quite mentally hampered, I do understand that), But your handwringing about what will happen in 7 or 8 years time is purely driven by that.

Where is his dad in this? His school? His GP? Yes CAHMS is desperately slow but get in there and fight for what you can. Not all private counselling is ££ either

You must stop allowing your past trauma to inform your reaction to your ds. If you can take a step back I expect you will recognise how very inappropriate this is. Please listen to the many voices here pointing this out to you

Adult services might be able to see him if he’s 17. Is he in education? You could speak to pastoral support at his college. You need to find out what’s happened to him or at least get him to speak to a professional.

Depression is not equivalent to unhappiness. It’s an illness.
You can encourage positive habits that are conducive to good mental health in healthy children but you cannot prevent depression.
Recovery from depression is not simply about increasing happiness. Feelings of sadness/ emptiness are just one of the common symptoms of a very complex illness that has both physical and psychological symptoms.
Identifying what makes you happy is often not particularly helpful if you are overwhelmed by negative emotions you cannot control or experiencing anhedonia (emotional numbness).

OP, I am a lifelong sufferer of depression and I can see where you’re coming from. Oftentimes I wish I didn’t have to live with myself. I also grew up with depressed parents and that was horrible too so I’ve been on both sides. The important thing is to try to communicate with each other as much as possible and to access any support available.
Family counselling if possible could be a safe place for you all to discuss how your sons illness is affecting the family dynamic and make positive steps towards making things better for everyone. It can be really helpful to have someone objective facilitating these discussions so everyone feels heard and is accountable.
It also sounds like it would be very beneficial to you to learn about depression and how it affects people. I think it would help if you understood your son’s behaviour better and understood what he does and doesn’t have control of in terms of symptoms.
It seems like there was possibly a lot more going on with your mothers behaviour than “just” depression.

IME it's a mistake to tiptoe and pander - as you saw with your DM, it just makes them feel more entitled to dictate everything that goes on around them, and probably makes it harder for them to cope in the world outside the home, where most people aren't going to do that. It's hard sometimes, but don't do it. Live how you choose in your own home and don't alter anything. Get him the help he needs; pay for a therapist if you can afford it. But don't let it rule your life. You don't want to reinforce any feeling he has that he's a delicate being who can't be expected to deal with normal life and relationships, or to produce a man whose future wife / kids / whoever think they "have to" tiptoe around his moods (nobody HAS to). If his moods are affecting you, don't let him see it. He matters, but not more than you do. Don't let it dominate everything.

For those wondering about a genetic cause for depression here is a link to one of many pieces of evidence
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/global-study-pinpoints-genes-for-depression-across-ethnicities

My other comment is that this is a very tough read as a parent with severe depression. So much negativity.

Being allowed to return to live with parents after uni is a privilege, not a right. So I would say that you do all you can now to support him, try arrange support, and when he's at uni if he wants to live with you again you make it clear that would be dependent on him seeking treatment for his mental health, and it improving, or you will support him to find his own place.

People will say that's harsh because nobody can afford to live alone these days but I don't know many people ever who've moved from parents to uni to their own place, people tend to get a house share which is far more affordable.

Mental health problems can explain behaviours. It can't justify them, unless we're talking somebody disconnecting from reality in a psychotic episode for example. He's nearing adulthood and needs guidance to take on responsibility for his own health and wellbeing. You can guide and support, but you don't have to tolerate poor treatment.

For disclosure, I never returned 'home' after uni, always stood on my own feet, and learned a lot from it. I'm glad, compared to seeing the journeys of friends who went from uni to their parents and then often stagnated for years. I think a lot of parents find it hard to accept their kids are adults, when they are adults, and still feel that they are children that need to be protected and caught when they fall. You can do that within reason but you don't have to sacrifice the sanctity and stability of your home. You matter too, you know?

I've also experienced crushing depression, three episodes now for a year or two apiece, so I know what it's like to be in that place where your mind is telling you 24/7 you'd be better off not here, nobody loves you, they might pretend they want you to stick around but it's just cos they don't know any better and actually when you're gone they'll find out it's much better. That you should hurt yourself, because it's what you deserve, never finding joy or peace in anything, time moving like a snail because you just feel so utterly wretched every second, mind and body, it's like the universe is punishing you by making you experience every split second ten times over. I get it. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I don't think either of us can say either way in that regard. There's no detectable pathogen for 'depressive disorder' and it's widely psychological and so I do believe that in a lot of the cases you will be able to prevent and remedy it.

And you should give it a bloody good go before you check out and say you no longer want to live with your child.

Mental health disorders are commonly genetic. Having a blood relative with a mental illness (like depression, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia for example) means you are at a higher risk of developing a similar condition. The tendency for certain mental health conditions to run in families is due to a shared genetic vulnerability. It doesn't mean you that you will inherit this disability and it very often skips a generation.