To be hurt and angry that DD told her prof her mum is a TERF and he sympathised

[Dahliadaily]

My DD is at a Russell group uni studying a masters following a 1st in humanities. I’m really proud of her obviously.
We were always really close. She cried for me throughout freshers’ week, relied on my tough love.

We differ respectfully on the trans issue. I am a feminist and a biology grad and believe in the reality of sex and the importance of single sex spaces, the rule of law.

We negotiate this ok and do keep talking. I’m sure that more unites us than separates us. We agree on prostitution for example. But not on the medicalisation of gender.

She is a lesbian. Has lots of gay non binary and trans friends. Her flatmate is a trans man. I’d never make a personal remark about any of them.

My other DD told me that uni DD has got close to a prof (male and gay - nothing sleazy) and told him I was a TERF. He responded “that must be really difficult for you”.

She’s an intelligent young woman, capable of forming her own views. But I can’t help being hurt by her comment and angry with the prof for siding with this idea that I’m difficult or even evil / unkind. It feels a bit like grooming.

Not in positions of power they ain’t. Thus wimmin’s perspective is seen as incidental, an afterthought.

Reality is right wing? 😂😂 Please do explain.

Yowza

Op's daughters lecturer probably made a comment about
conforming with gender ideology (prevalent in universities)

and now we are into Marxism !!!

FFS
focus on what is real and around you
not what was pontificated by rich blokes > 100 years ago

“Right wing” 🤭https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/communist-party-and-young-communist-league-welcome-supreme-court-ruling-definition

What an embarrassingly silly comment. Who’s hating a minority? Is it hate not to believe what someone else believes? Obviously not: what nonsense. I don’t hate Christians if I don’t believe in God, do I? Furthermore, I don’t hate right-wingers just because I don’t agree with them; or hate people who love listening to dance music just because I think it’s a bit shit.

And since when was hating a minority a purely right wing phenomenon? Do you think Stalin, Kim Jong Un or the Chinese Communist Party are great examples of love and goodwill to all?

You need to do some reading, and educate yourself!

I'm just interested in accuracy really. Slightly confused about how this thread has gone from people claiming they're proud to be TERFS to it apparently always having been a slur in a few pages but I guess what I can conclude is that a lot of people are happy to talk about things, not least radical feminism, that they really know very little about.

It is not radical
to want to protect legally mandated single sex spaces for women
it it not radical
to want to protect primary schools for under 11s
it is not radical
to want to restricy OAP homes to the over 65s
it is not radical
to want same sex care for vulnerable adults

those who say otherwise are the reason for safeguarding

You understand that there are several words that are used as slurs but have been reclaimed, right? It’s not really that hard.

Uh huh. But there's no real consensus on this thread as to whether TERF started off as a description then became a slur, has always been a slur or is fine.

And still nobody's been willing to discuss their radical feminist views with me. 🤷‍♀️

I wasn’t aware you were asking. What do you want to know?

Personally I don't consider myself radical, but I see myself as feminist and I am very aware nowadays of areas where women's rights do not tend to get prioritised. Surrogacy would be a good example.

Is that what you're looking for?

Why would it matter? It’s clear that TERF is used as a slur and some own it. 🤷🏻‍♀️ not sure why you think that’s a big issue but you do you.

in terms of radical feminism for me it’s that biological sex is the root of women’s oppression. Again not sure why you think it’s a big issue. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Me neither but I am almost mid 50s too.

How it informs your life and choices, how you envisage a separate and matriarchal society to work in practice, whether you've taken any practical steps to endorse that, such as political lesbianism or separatism, what you believe should happen to sons once they reach adolescence, that type of thing.

Not really, no. Radical feminism is quite a distinct branch.

I would be immensely grateful never to have to read the phrase "you do you" again. It's both condescending and inane.

Good point.

It’s bizarre to think that having a parent with different views to you is a ‘difficulty’

my parents have very different political views to me. We have clashed a few times over the years. I’ve fallen out with them once ( Brexit). I’d say this is a very normal and common situation for many people.

It never occurred to me that it was some kind of burden!

That’s your opinion. You do you. I don’t give a shit. 🤷🏻‍♀️

“ I let them believe whatever they want to.”
Seriously..? How benevolent of you.

The Morning Star is right wing?

Well, those things don’t define radical feminism, for one thing; and in practice there are lots of similarities and overlaps between Marxist and broader second wave feminism and radical feminism: it isn’t just one separate and distinct strain of feminist thought. Lots of theorists get put forward in the internet as “radical feminists” who weren’t actually particularly so in practice; and there was plenty of disagreement amongst feminists, too, about lots of things, and between different time periods (1960s, 1980s, today, and so on).

Radical feminism is more about the kind of critique that is being made of the social world, rather than the exact solutions that are offered for it. It emerges from a Marxist class analysis, but instead sees male physical dominance and violence as the origin of patriarchy, and the control of women’s bodies (and their reproductive labour) as the root of female oppression. Instead of this, radical feminism desires a social revolution that replaces this structure with a genuinely free life in which women are no longer oppressed and men are no longer oppressors. That means the radical reinvention of economic and social structures, the eradication of violence, and the prioritising of the worth, value and needs of women and children on the same level as those of men.

Different radical, Marxist and second-wave feminists had different ideas about how this would be achieved: there are no specific solutions that are the end goal of reaching this new social world. There is certainly no agreement that a “separate and matriarchal society” would be the goal! That sounds like you’re deliberately inverting the entire point of radical feminism, which recognises that men suffer under patriarchy, too; and that men were also children affected by their mothers’ oppression. The answer is not to reverse who’s doing the oppressing: the answer is a radical new society where nobody is oppressed.

It’s a right wing stereotype to think that radical feminism was all about creating a lesbian-matriarchal separatist society where boys are all abandoned or shot at puberty 😆 Very hilarious! It’s true that a few women did set up their own lesbian communities in the 1970s/80s; but they hardly believed that this would be feasible on a grand scale, and they - gasp - just wanted to live their lives their own way with other women. There was a bit of Utopianism and some science fiction-style speculation going on in some feminist writing of the 60s-80s (Firestone’s belief that artificial reproduction would free women from biological oppression comes to mind); but it was more speculative than genuine practical advice or manifesto. (And certainly no more bizarre than the liberal feminist Sheryl Sandberg-style fantasy that the world would be run by badass female CEOs if we all just “leaned in” at work.)

You ask about me: well, I’m bisexual, so I am pretty unbothered by the idea of political lesbianism, which was considered the height of progressiveness in 1970, and is only now considered beyond the pale because today’s fashions in gender studies have swung the opposite way (they’re likely to swing back again some time soon). I myself have found that my lesbian relationships have been much easier and more supportive; so I don’t see why I might personally not choose to go off with a woman again at some future point. (You should try it!) I probably won’t be shooting all the young men or clapping them in a male harem when they reach 16, though; or bothering to dominate everyone with my matriarchal powers: that sounds a lot of effort.

My goodness.. so much vitriol. So many people identifying as morally righteous, rational minorities.
Yet so few people actually showing any empathy for the legitimate minorities of this argument who have to face difficulties in their lives which I presume most of us will never experience. Those who have experienced any form of abuse by anyone of any gender nefariously invading the spaces in their lives which should be assumed to be safe, and those who cannot equate the bodies they live in with who they are, are the people who need empathy and support, and I can only see positives from putting away the pitchforks and trying to see things from those perspectives, without declaring each other loonies..

Yeh you need to hit the ground running on here with acronyms I’m afraid.

Edited; sorry, cross post.

That's an interesting viewpoint, thanks for sharing. What I'm saying, using quite broad brush strokes, is that in practice, radical feminism looks nothing like and has little to do with what's being discussed here. And however you look at it, if you're a radical feminist, you do have to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, rather than just co-opt a term or position. I think that's my problem with the term TERF - it's fairly meaningless. As is gender critical because feminism is about looking critically and analysing ideas and concepts around gender, whatever position you take on the rights of trans people and/or single sex spaces.
Maybe the TLDR is let's cut the labels?

Also, we’re not a hive mind. Some still consider it a slur, others wear it as a badge with pride.