Should guising/trick or treating have an upper age limit..?

[AmberRose86]

I live on a fairly small new build estate. Halloween is a pretty big deal here. Quite Americanised. Decorations are elaborate (for those who wish to participate. It’s quite well known in the area and families from surrounding areas travel to the estate to go guising there (another argument in itself but generally it does t really bother me).

Ive been taking my kids guising there since we moved in 4 years ago. There has always been a lovely, friendly atmosphere, just lots of families milling about. The kids absolutely love it.

Last night however I’d say the vibe was a bit different. Maybe because it was Friday night? Big groups of teenagers walking about in scream masks etc, pushing their way through crowds of small kids to the doors. I’m not talking 12-13 year olds. I mean 14, 15, 16. They looked like fully grown adults.

Someone (not me, for the record) has posted on the estate facebook page bemoaning these teenagers, too old for guising, intimidating, taking sweets that are for the wee ones etc. An argument has duly broken out. Surely it’s better that they are guising and not drinking in the park, who is this person to say that these teens are too old etc.

I’m kind of on the fence, but to be honest I did think the groups of teens were a bit on the ridiculous side. My eldest is 11 and understands she is at the upper end of the guising age scale.

The worst thing for me is that people tend to leave bowls of sweets outside when they take their own kids round the doors. These groups of teens have been caught on Ring doorbells emptying these bowls into their bags so the wee ones don’t get anything. But to be fair I accept that’s a hazard of leaving stuff outside (although this hasn’t been a problem in previous years).

Do you just mean outside lights or ALL of your lights?

Surely you aren't expected to sit in your own home all evening and grope around in the dark, just to indicate to passing children that they won't get any treats from you?!

I agree. How devastated would you be if something serious happened to your child... and in the investigation report, you began by saying "Well, I sent my child out and told them to knock on lots of strangers' doors to ask for treats...' ?

I'd assume that, considering that paedophiles will often go to great effort to try to get themselves into jobs or volunteering roles where they will have access to children, they probably gleefully look forward to Hallowe'en as their very favourite night/weekend of the year - when the children will actually come out to them in their own homes.

Obviously, the vast, vast majority of people are harmless and just see it as fun; but how can you possibly know which one isn't?

What? My youngest is in Y8 and went out with friends, all dressed up. I saw half her class across the evening - all very smiley and polite.

Autistic DD and her friend (Y10) also went out - I’m so glad they were treated well by our neighbours too.

Your little kids will be young teenagers eventually. What would you want for them? Childhood doesn’t have to stop at 11…

I think once they are old enough to go without their parents they are too old.

It’s also a confusing message for kids and undermines the don’t talk to strangers, don’t got to a strangers house, don’t accept sweets from strangers. Ok they put out a pumpkin forget all of the safety stuff and crack on. Putting exceptions into safety advice defeats the purpose of the advice

Would you teach them to cross the road with exceptions - ok look left look right wait for no cars then go. Or look left look right but if there’s a red car you can just run into the road beachside they’ll probably stop in time

I think it is behaviour rather than age.

Properly dressed up, keeping in the spirit, being polite and friendly - no problem.

Wearing just a mask, being grabby - no thank you.

Groups of large teens can be very intimidating, I'd rather have 2 groups of 4 than 1 group of 8.

My youngest really enjoyed it when she was 13&14 as she finally had some friends to go with, but they were all small and young for their age so didn't look at all out of place.

Re. “Stranger danger” I kind of feel children should have adults with them at all times for trick or treating, so they’re not talking to these strangers alone.

And if they think they’re too old to dress up and have their mum or dad trail around after them, then they are too old for any of it and can sit trick or treating out.

I don’t mind older teens out with their younger siblings if the parents can’t do it though. That tends to have a very different vibe from groups of 13 year olds trick or treating for themselves.

I get very nervous around groups of older teenagers at night, especially when they're hooded and masked! This is because I have been attacked by teenagers in the past (not Halloween related) and received verbal abuse from them on many occasions. I know there are lots of nice teenagers in the world, I spend time regularly with many of them. But out at night I can't tell if a group is nice or not and I'd rather feel safe just walking home in my own neighbourhood, you know?

I definitely won't be the only person in this category. This must be a very stressful time for a lot of vulnerable people.

My 14 year old went with 2 friends, they all dressed up. I think it’s partly the novelty of being allowed to go without a parent! They are respectful and well behaved so I don’t see an issue with it. I’m just grateful they are still happy to be kids. So many teenagers want to be adults!!

Are there many instances of children being attacked/kidnapped/assaulted during trick or treating?

My daughter and her teenage friends went out with me and then another parent swapped in. We talked about if she could go out without an adult and then she decided she wasn’t ready which was a relief to her friend as then she could say she wasn’t ready either.

Probably relevant that my daughter is autistic and is a young 12, but I don’t need to see proof of disability if other teenagers want to enjoy being silly. The rest of the year I navigate endless hordes of vaping, drinking, aggressive teenagers so having one night of silly children dressed up in funny costumes is a great break.

Kids aren’t that daft. Plus, the conversation has long moved from “stranger danger” only to, and rightly so , when most children are at risk from people they know.

Probably not; but even one is far too many.

Why would you knowingly put all of the ideal circumstances in place for an abuser and then just hope that no bad person might ever exploit that opportunity?

It's not about kids 'not being daft', though. However smart they are, a young child is no match for an adult abuser who is intent on harming them.

You may as well say that only 'daft' women could ever be at risk of being raped.

Just because a lot of abuse does take place in their own home and/or perpetrated by people who are known to them, that doesn't magically mean that strangers can't also pose a risk to them too.

Surely no loving, non-abusive parent would reckon that, because they don't pose a risk to their child - even though statistically they might be the most likely - it's therefore completely safe to expose them to strangers by actually knocking on their doors in the dark?

I think it’s all about intent.

A group of well meaning 13/14 year olds that have made the effort and dressed up, genuinely going out for a fun night and some sweets - no problem in my eyes. My child fell into this category and I was happy with them going out this year but have told them it’s the last.

A group of similar aged kids who would usually just be roaming the streets anyway stocking on a mask and generally being twats … not so much.

Never heard the word 'guising' before but I like it! (Just looked it up too.)

Why would a young child be in the presence of strangers with no supervision?

My favourite trick or treaters are teenagers who are bit ‘too old’. Dressed up and loving it, but also trying to be cool. Been a teenager is bloody hard, they still enjoy childish things but feel pressure to be grown up.

I love that they are choosing a childish thing for an evening. They could be doing much worse things!

You can tell which people on here actually have teens and which only know the Facebook Group version of a teen.

I have a genuinely lovely teen with genuinely lovely friends who were singing a song at peoples doors, having chats and sending me photos of peoples amazing decorations. There will be kids in their year at school who were probably out drinking and causing a nuisance but they really aren’t all the same. I also didn’t realise till I had them myself in fairness.

Because if you excluded all the things that are potentially dangerous, it would make for a very small, insular life. I bet you take your kids in the car , and that’s more likely to have a catastrophic ending .

I have a couple of sexual assaults under my belt (some as a child) , if I avoided all those situations for DD she’d never leave the house , or go to school or interact with anyone but me.

I can't comprehend, am struggling to understand a lot of the anxiety on this thread. I don't see an issue with 13/14 year olds going trick-or-treating like anyone else.

My 11 year old went with her friends. I went to make sure they were safe.

I was paranoid about what people thought of her - she’s 5’8, adult sized and wore my chunky boots so was probably nearer 5’10.

She is young in her ways but looks so much older.

Nah. We had some sweet young teens, they're 13/14. Very polite and friendly. Excellent costumes they'd done themselves etc

The issue isn't age, it's the attitude of taking all the sweets, chucking them around, shouting and swearing etc

You are being a bit ridiculous.
I don't think there's an issue with the age of those out guising, but there is with the rudeness. For what it's worth that's not limited to teens, there's plenty of doorbell footage around here of younger kids pretty much emptying bowls of sweets I to their bags. It's why I stopped letting kids choose what they wanted from the sweets we had, and handed them out instead. There are always a few grabby kids, sometimes encouraged by their parents to just 'take a few' (cue both hands in the tub).

As an aside, I don't really understand why you're OK with people coming into your area from other areas, but want a blanket ban on local teens. I've always thought that's rude.