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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Andrew and social services

158 replies

autumnfallingleaves · 01/11/2025 08:30

AIBU to wonder if social care have become involved with Andrew Mountbatten’s daughters and Grandchildren? And if not, why not?
he’s clearly a sex offender of a very young woman and I’m not sure but possibly a paedophile. I guess he’s not been charged with anything as yet so that probably answers my question. Just sitting here and thinking about how different life would be for him if he’d lived in an ordinary family

OP posts:
HeadDeskHeadDesk · 01/11/2025 12:00

autumnfallingleaves · 01/11/2025 08:30

AIBU to wonder if social care have become involved with Andrew Mountbatten’s daughters and Grandchildren? And if not, why not?
he’s clearly a sex offender of a very young woman and I’m not sure but possibly a paedophile. I guess he’s not been charged with anything as yet so that probably answers my question. Just sitting here and thinking about how different life would be for him if he’d lived in an ordinary family

Sleeping with a 17 year old doesn't make him a paedophile though, or someone who is likely to sexually abuse his own children or any other children he may have access to. There are lots of words to decribe the sort of middle aged men who might avail themselves of easy, exploitative sex with young, vulnerable women, but incestuous or paedophilic aren't the necessarily the most obvious or appropriate ones.

If VG hadn't been trafficked and coerced the sex could have arguably been totally consensual and totally legal. Morally questionable perhaps, but legal. Young women of only 16 or 17 can and do fully and readily consent to sex with men older than them all the time. They may make some dubious choices due their understandable immaturity and naivety, but the whole point of an age of consent is they can decide for themselves, even if those decisions are sometimes questionable.

The almost impossible thing for anyone to prove here is whether Andrew did or did not believe the sex to be fully consensual at the time and whether or not he knew that she was trafficked or coerced by Epstein and Maxwell. And as he's insisting he has no memory of sex with her at all, let alone whether it was consensual or not, it's always going to be her word against his and no amount of photos with his arm around her waist will prove a thing.

I have a similar photo of me with a man I met once at a party in 1990 or whatever, he was a friends of a friend and in this photo he has his arm around me. I didn't sleep with them and never saw him again. If someone said to me 'James Smith from Epping is alleging you had sex with him' and I said 'I don't even know anyone called James Smith' and someone then plonked that photo of me with him from 20 years ago, does that make me a liar?

I might say 'Oh ok, I vaguely remember meeting him but I only remember it because of the photo. If the photo didn't exist I'd have no memory of him whatsoever. I certainly don't remember that his name is James Smith, I don't remember whose party it was, or what year it was exactly, or that he lives in Epping. Why would I? I never saw him again and I certainly didn't sleep with him.' And I'd be telling the truth.

All that proves is that I am not someone blessed with an amazing memory for remembering every insignificant person I ever met over a 30 year period. But if he insists we did sleep together that night, how can I prove a negative? I can't.

But assuming Andrew did have sex with VG on more than one occasion, there are two issues here. One is whether it was morally questionable and the other is whether it was illegal. But neither of these things point towards him being a paedophile. I think that's a term bandied around rather too readily. A paedophile isn't simply someone who has sex with someone who is under the age of consent, which as we know is completely arbitrary depending on the laws of the country or even the state in which you happen to be when the sex happens. It can be anywhere from 12 to 21.

A paedophile is someone who has a specific sexual interest in pre-pubescent children. That may include children who are technically going through puberty, but the whole point is that must still look and act like children. The minute a girl starts to look physically like a woman and behave more like a woman (which most 17 year olds clearly would do) they'd be too old to interest a true paedophile.

Some paedophiles would probably not dream of abusing their own children or grandchildren. I'm sure many would, but not all. They'd prefer to keep their prediliction well away from their family life, if only to protect themselves from being easily identified by their victims.

Also, just because a man might not think twice about having sex with a person in their late teens, (regardless of whether they are over the age of consent or technically/legally considered to be an adult or a child) it really doesn't follow that they'd be a sexual risk to their own young children.

zingally · 01/11/2025 12:04

Not sure why they would be tbh. Both his daughters are well into their mid-30s, and he hasn't been convicted of any crime involving children.

He (and Fergie) are grifters of the highest order, and it wouldn't be surprising at all to learn they had some very unsavoury "friends", if those "friends" benefitted them in any way.
Unfortunately, his years of "but I'm a ROYAL don't you know?!" have ultimately caused his downfall. If he'd been Joe Bloggs Public, no-one would have even known.
He'd have been better off copying his younger brother Edward, and keeping a bland public face, while concentrating on his job, wife, and raising his children. Unfortunately he was far too full of his own self-importance to appreciate that approach.

Pharazon · 01/11/2025 12:07

KitchenSinkLlama · 01/11/2025 09:45

Having sex with a trafficked girl or woman can never be consensual regardless of her age. Non consensual sex is rape. Virginia’s age is a red herring.

This is incorrect. It’s a separate offence. As the law stands trafficked women can consent to sex so a charge of rape is not a given.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 01/11/2025 12:09

Cantthinkofanewusernameffs · 01/11/2025 11:57

I stand corrected. I did not know that.

People like Saville and Epstein groom adults as well as children.

They seek out powerful people and make themselves best pals, ingratiate themselves, support and organise the best fundraisers, throw great parties, make themselves the centre of a social circle.

They leapfrog their way around collecting people and making themselves appear untouchable.

Being friends with the greats is excellent protection when rumours start, and we were very naive.

Wherearethegaps · 01/11/2025 12:14

aquashiv · 01/11/2025 11:33

It's not her age that's the problem; it's the other girls some as young as 12.

Have they come forward to add evidence?

Phoenix1Arisen · 01/11/2025 12:15

What a pity that those screaming loudest in this witch-hunt haven't noticed what Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh was doing during October in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Perhaps if those people were to transfer their passion about not proven allegations (of admittedly sleazy behaviour) to provable, demonstrable fact, the unleashed fury would actually achieve something worthwhile.

See also Dr Denis Mukwege.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 01/11/2025 12:16

I'm shocked by some of the comments on this thread

Hes a fucking sweaty nonce and he thought hed get away with it because hes a royal

Its so rare that powerful men are held to account so I am thrilled that his life will be a little harder (I mean, hes still living off the tax payer so he really isnt suffering)

You cant live off the taxpayer in a fucking massive house and expect to go around noncing whilst the poorest live in constant fear of having their UC/PIP cut everytime Budget Day rolls around.

Scummy man. Would definitely rob you if he can.

cardibach · 01/11/2025 12:17

beatingandbearing · 01/11/2025 09:42

And he was the only one, was he?

We all know that it was massive, involved a lot of girls and a lot of men. Who are hiding in plain sight while everyone demands Andrew loses everything.

I want them all to lose everything. Andrew is the one we can do something about because he’s on the U.K. and his connection is known.

cardibach · 01/11/2025 12:19

neverbeenskiing · 01/11/2025 09:44

Aren't his daughters adult women in their 30's??

Were they always? Born that age were they?

JLou08 · 01/11/2025 12:21

No, social services would not be getting involved if he was an ordinary man. There's nothing to suggest he is a pedophile and his children are adults. This isn't a defence of him, if what is reported is true he is disgusting but there's no role for social services.

Elizabethandfour · 01/11/2025 12:21

TheignT · 01/11/2025 11:03

Do you know any pedophiles? They don't come with a sign so you might not know.

Give me a break. Everyone knew Saville was a paedo. You think Charles’s highly sophisticated security team had no idea? What was the attraction I wonder? The Royals are huge snobs and Saville was so uncouth.

Also Charles’s favourite uncle was another one.

Something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Pharazon · 01/11/2025 12:22

Phoenix1Arisen · 01/11/2025 12:15

What a pity that those screaming loudest in this witch-hunt haven't noticed what Sophie, Duchess of Edinburgh was doing during October in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Perhaps if those people were to transfer their passion about not proven allegations (of admittedly sleazy behaviour) to provable, demonstrable fact, the unleashed fury would actually achieve something worthwhile.

See also Dr Denis Mukwege.

Never heard of her and I doubt many others have either. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

twosandwiches · 01/11/2025 12:28

Horrible, pompous, entitled man who didn’t stop to think that a clearly trafficked teenager might not want to have sex with him - yes.

Guilty of sleeping with countless women under the same circumstances - probably.

A paedophile posing a threat to children - no evidence whatsoever.

Blanketpolicy · 01/11/2025 12:28

Bit of a leap to go from the reported information that he likes young women and not caring if they are trafficked or prostituted for him (which is bad enough and deserves imo further investigation/criminal charges against him) and being a paedophile (prepubescent children)

Portsmouthnappies · 01/11/2025 12:41

Hi, I am a child and family social worker. In circumstances like this, a referral woukd be made, usually from police. Social workers would assess and work with the family, usually safety planning, such as a safe parent (usually the mother) would ensure children are not left alone with alleged perpetrator. It doesmt matter if there is a conviction or not.

dottiehens · 01/11/2025 12:41

Are you also as worried about Virginia G father who raped her according to her? there is not proof of the things you are saying. I couldn’t care less about Andrew but the obsession is beyond the charts.

BoredZelda · 01/11/2025 12:42

sesquipedalian · 01/11/2025 09:56

“he’s clearly a sex offender of a very young woman and I’m not sure but possibly a paedophile.”

I’ve never read such nonsense.

  1. At seventeen, it is not illegal to have a sexual relationship.
  2. He denies the allegations.
  3. He is not and has never been accused of being a paedophile.

What on earth would “social care” have to do with his adult daughters and their husbands? Quite apart from the fact that one of his daughters lives abroad, don’t you think they’re quite capable of looking after their own children? It has never, ever been suggested that Prince Andrew is anything other than a devoted father and grandfather. As for “thinking about how different life would be for him if he’d lived in an ordinary family”, all of our lives would have been different had we lived in a different family. Prince Andrew has been shown to be entitled and ill-advised, but the witch hunt against him, and the baying mob howling for retribution is nothing short of vindictive.

Even if he did not know at the time, he knows now. He, at the very least, knows there is a chance the rumours are true. He has names, dates, locations. He is a font of information that could allow a proper investigation put this thing to bed one way or another.

Whether he had sex with Virginia is largely irrelevant. He now knows what she claims she endured at the hands of Epstein. If Epstein was his friend, he should want to do that to clear Epstein’s name. He could do that whilst still protesting his innocence. He could do the decent thing and make a statement that supports the victims of abuse, that he is saddened about what happened to Virginia and if it turns out she was in fact trafficked by his friend for sex, that he abhors what he did.

Andrew has never done that. Now that he has been freed from the shackles of the Royal Family, and his role in protecting the firm has been removed, he should be entirely able to do that. I can’t fathom what his reasons would be not to do that, if he is indeed innocent of ever knowing anything.

OneBadKitty · 01/11/2025 12:43

Pharazon · 01/11/2025 12:22

Never heard of her and I doubt many others have either. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Never heard of her? Do you live under a rock? - she's the wife of Andrew's brother Edward! How have you not heard of her? And it is very relevant!

3IATLAS · 01/11/2025 12:43

At the very least all his devices need checking by the police in case he ever dipped below girls who were over 16 but looked a lot younger.

Portsmouthnappies · 01/11/2025 12:44

Blanketpolicy · 01/11/2025 12:28

Bit of a leap to go from the reported information that he likes young women and not caring if they are trafficked or prostituted for him (which is bad enough and deserves imo further investigation/criminal charges against him) and being a paedophile (prepubescent children)

Would need a detailed forensic assessment to work out the risk. My view is that there are allegations that he has sex with a exploited minor. I would think that noone is off the table for him.

3IATLAS · 01/11/2025 12:44

Portsmouthnappies · 01/11/2025 12:44

Would need a detailed forensic assessment to work out the risk. My view is that there are allegations that he has sex with a exploited minor. I would think that noone is off the table for him.

Totally agree

BoredZelda · 01/11/2025 12:46

dottiehens · 01/11/2025 12:41

Are you also as worried about Virginia G father who raped her according to her? there is not proof of the things you are saying. I couldn’t care less about Andrew but the obsession is beyond the charts.

Is her father still in the line of succession to the throne? Did his actions threaten the monarchical structure of the U.K and risk throwing us into a constitutional crisis? Was it part of a trafficking ring which has involved some of the most powerful people across the world?

Muffinmam · 01/11/2025 12:46

The problem is the firm buried any investigation. He’s never had his electronic media reviewed. Because there were no charges he’s got away with what he did.

He’s untouchable.

We need to all be vocal for an end to the British monarchy. It’s time.

InLoveWithAI · 01/11/2025 12:47

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 01/11/2025 10:28

This is nothing, on one of the other Andrew threads someone tried to claim that he had also been groomed by Epsteine and was every inch a victim as Virginia Giuffre.

Ah. We're not dealing with sane people.

I forget how the royal chat threads can be.

Portsmouthnappies · 01/11/2025 12:48

JLou08 · 01/11/2025 12:21

No, social services would not be getting involved if he was an ordinary man. There's nothing to suggest he is a pedophile and his children are adults. This isn't a defence of him, if what is reported is true he is disgusting but there's no role for social services.

Hi, there would probably be an assessment on any under 18s he has/had access to. This would be standard with any allegations, regardless of police investigation/convictions.