Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

Far less people especially women went to uni. My sons late grandmother was a very intelligent woman. However she wasn't allowed the attend grammars schools like her brothers as she was a girl. And considered a waste of time as she'd just get married and have kids

She did get married at 22 and moved far from her parents. She also worked in an office in London ( in quite a high position for a woman at the time) until adopting her eldest when she was mid 30s.

So i don't think grammar school would've been a waste

Oh don't remind me of the orange and brown. I'll have nightmares.

Yes the uni thing is different - very few went and you could also have a good career without going.

the difference now is that women can go equally to men - broadly. There are still issues around certain subjects unfortunately.

feminism - women have equal access to university
economics - trying to make university access open to all meant fees were inevitable as was the devaluation of degrees

I did university as day release with two kids. When I applied to do it my boss asked if I could do 5 days work in 4 days. I guaranteed I could do he approved it. Lunch hours became a thing of the past, uni days involved me going into the office before getting to uni for 9 am and lecture till 7 pm. It was a long five years but ultimately worth it.

You are probably quite a bit younger than the lady I spoke about. I'm not sure employers were that way inclined back then

I'm in my 70s, not sure how that compares.

She'd have been 100 next year

In the 1970/80s between 10 and 20% of kids got to go to uni

60% of them were male and only 40% female

@ObelixtheGaul Thank you. My life now is so much happier but it came at a price. Still, no regrets x

Nah, 2025 is a fantastic time to be a woman. What you CHOOSE to do with your life is yours for the taking. I'd rather be a woman here and now than 50/100/200yrs ago

University was pretty much free but far fewer people went.

Over 50% of school leavers will go to university now. In the early 90s it was less than 25%
In the 60s it was as low as 5%

It was harder to get into university, much more weighted towards those who had attended private school. Most average state comprehensive school leavers went straight to work at 16.

Despite the cost, far more people go to uni now than at any point in our nation's history.

And then there was avocado. Nothing more vomit inducing than the green bath and sink complementing the brown walls...

Yes, my mother was affected by all of this and I remember some of it too. Not being able to get credit or a mortgage as a single woman. The women forced to bear and give up children for adoption after becoming pregnant by force. Women entering abusive marriages as the only way of escaping parental abuse. Many married women did work for low wages, especially if their husbands were low earners or just plain selfish.

I’ve had a much better life than the 50s housewife, solo parenting and taking full responsibility for my own finances. It’s been easier at times with a partner but I can’t imagine wanting to cede them full financial control.

Salaries did rise faster than inflation measured over the 1970s but there was a huge lag which meant for a few years many people struggled immensely

we have a similar story in the 80s - on average people were better off by the end of it but many people suffered unemployment and houses were reposseswed

we have over the last decade ( approx , not doubled checked this) seen a decline in average living standards

in absolute terms - since living standards were rising in the 1970s they were clearly lower than in the 1980a and living standards probably peaked between 2000 and 2010. Meaning that living standards in the 70s and 80s were LOWER than in the 2000s. My feeling having lived through these years is that living standards now are still substantially higher than the 70s and 80s but the trajectory isn’t good ( note I was living in a mining area so maybes the uk as a whole wasn’t as bad as I recollect but with unemployment at 25% in my region living standards struggled )

so living standards peaked decades after the major changes brought about by feminism had been achieved

so yes problems are real, a downwards trend is not good , but the past wasn’t better unless you look in the relatively recent past

Also, I'd say a lot of 80s 'prosperity' was smoke and mirrors that bit a lot of people on the bum in the end. Irresponsible lending and borrowing meant a lot of people living lifestyles not matched by actual income.

Looking back now, there was high unemployment masked by high spending. In the rush to get us all owning homes, banks lent with a lot less caution and as a result, repossession was, as you say, a sadly common thing. Then in the 90s, of course, there was the endowment fiasco.

The 80s felt like prosperity after the 70s, but a lot of it was an illusion. In addition, a lot of the 'throwaway society' developed at this time, when we were encouraged to keep up with the Joneses by having the stuff.

I think some of today's issues stem from that time of spend, spend, spend, even if you hadn't got it. Attitudes shifted, expectation increased, we needed more and more to be content.

I've great memories of growing up in the 80s, but the whole decade was a cheque written against the future we have never really been able to cash.

Off topic a bit, so I will just add that the lifestyle shift in the 80s wasn't really about feminism, it was about a nation letting its hair down after a long period of struggle.

I had my sons in the 90’s. All my female friends and colleagues who had children went back after 3 or 6 months. I went back when mine were 8 weeks old and worked up until the last minute. If you wanted professional respect and not to put your career on the “mummy track” this was essential. There was a lot of discrimination, I wore my engagement ring on a long chain around my neck so it wouldn’t be noticed. We paid very high interest rates on our mortgage too.

Smoke and mirrors you may be right/ the 80e also had the great council house fiasco ( government give away ) which has led , in my opinion, to loads of the housing problems we see today

I worked with someone in the early 90s. She finished work on the Friday, elective c.section on the Monday. Following Monday her, husband, baby and nanny went on their two week summer holiday, when the got back she returned to work. So she had exactly three weeks off work which included her two week summer holiday. I didn't know if I should admire her strength or pity her. I know I couldn't have done it, I don't think I was dressed three weeks after my c.section.

Eight weeks is also a big challenge, again I don't think I could have done it, I usually had six to eight months off but back in the 70s that also included looking for a new job.

Yes I think you explain it well. We bought our first house in 73, in 74 it was worth less than we paid for it. Two babies in the 70s and it was very hard for a few years but by 79 things looked better, not to mention my second one was starting school so childcare was easier.

I wouldn't want to go back. I feel sad thinking about it and the things we struggled to do for the children. They don't remember it the same so I guess we hid our worries.

Oh the horror of it all. What were we thinking?

My mum used to say brown swirly carpets didn't show the dirt!

I went with women who were older than me, I still know two who did it after me one in her 80s and one in her 90s who decided to do it when I graduated so closer to the person you know. I guess we were lucky with our employer and one person inspired the next two or three so all the women I worked with who were ten years younger than me did it.

Yes showing the dirt was a big issue particularly if you lived in an area with heavy industry. When we had the three day week one of the revelations where I lived was we saw blue skies. Having said that I loved the heavy fogs when I was a kid, something exciting about walking along in your own little bubble and then hearing footsteps but seeing no one. I obviously wasn't a nervous child.

I would propose 3 years SHARED between the mother and the father. 1.5 years for the mum then 1.5 years for the dad. They both get the same impact on their careers. They both bong with their child. They both share the same level of responsibility at home and outside the home.

Yes it certainly wasn't commonplace. Especially amongst working class women I suspect.