Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

@Hohumdedum You can be a housewife without children. You cannot be a sahm without children.

That means SAHM is a sub-category of housewife... ...

This, "to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to the law; and this is my solemn vow"

Legally binding words that are not bestowed upon a girlfriend and boyfriend.

I asked you yesterday if you could explain the link. Can you please, as I'm genuinely struggling to see it within the context of the discussion. In what way do you feel feminism has contributed to the unaffordablity of housing?

@Goldenbear I'm married. Neither of us made those vows and they're not legally binding. There are only actually very few words which are the legally binding part and which offically have to be declared.

Yes, you are right, there are only a couple (?) sentences that have to be stated for legal reasons. I think my point was in response to the poster who asked if you would give half of your income to your boyfriend. In our marriage it is family income and that is due to us being married, we wouldn't and didn't feel the same as boyfriend and girlfriend although tbh DH has always been a big gesture kind of man so indirectly did spend quite a bit on me to begin with. It wasn't expected though.

Not quite the same thing. You also have to balance the cost of the house with what it was actually costing you monthly due to interest rates. How about the cost of living? Many many things were more expensive relative to wages, food was for example. Inflation was high.

Depends where you live, we aren't all in the SE. Also depends on the house, go and buy a two bed terrace in parts of the midlands or north, like I did, no fancy extensions, central heating or double glazing and you might be able to afford it on one salary, actually we couldn't do we both worked.

Because they both co-exist.

Our current capitalist system relies on unpaid domestic labor, such as childcare, which is essential for the maintenance of the workforce but is often undervalued and disproportionately performed by women. No wonder women are burning out, and childcare is still unaffordable in the UK. Usually it’s women who have to reduce their hours to keep a home, and/or look after kids.
In addition to this, women also take on more caring responsibilities when it comes to ageing parents too. When you have both ageing parents and children, this is an added burden alongside having to work due to our economy (see sandwich generation).

The future for feminism should be anti-capitalist because under capitalism, women disproportionately suffer compared to our male counterparts - whose lives remain virtually unchanged following the birth of children or in the case of ageing parents, or moving in with their partners (as examples) because the bulk of unpaid labour falls onto women.

We really really need childcare to more affordable to help women maintain careers and that “choice.” Why can men progress in their careers and have children, while women still cannot for the large part. One way to address this could be affordable childcare… some countries do this well.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/government/2022/03/08/the-future-of-feminism-is-anti-capitalist/

Would love to but sadly DH’s job is niche and based in London.

Wed have loved to live in London, DH offered his dream job but sadly even on two salaries we couldn't do it. Life has some tough choices doesn't it.

Yes but inflation is much higher now compared to average salaries. University for you guys back then was pretty much free right? Great for feminism… that choice… look at it now… £9k+ a year. Women in stem jobs is lower than ever. Women are in debt from uni. Men overall still get paid more. Yes, we don’t all have to go to uni, but nice to have the choice and not be in so much debt.

I think progress for women has stalled… under capitalism mostly. Those are my views. We’ve definitely benefitted in many ways, but progress has now stalled.

I've got four adult children, all in relationships, all have children. All the men do their share, the two families with young children the dad's do nursery drop off and collection, do their share of cooking, washing etc. maybe what we need is women who don't have kids with men who don't do their share.

It does indeed. We don’t live in London btw. Too expensive. We are outside. However for what we pay per month on our mortgage, we could be in a huge detached house up north. I am supporting my DH to work in the industry he wants to. I am ok with that as I want him to be happy, but it’s wishful thinking sometimes.

Obviously your family is very lucky… this isn’t the case for a lot of women unfortunately and finding a male partner like this can be down to luck as well. I would be careful to put the blame on the woman. I think men need to step up, but I’m not sure how we encourage that.

Yes, it is terrible being considered a whole legal person. Holding property in my own name. Having a job, and financial freedom to make my own decisions separate from what my husband wants.

Feminism was definitely a mistake.

Just how fucking STUPID are you?

Countries where feminism doesn’t exist are available. You can belong to a man, have zero freedom, not work etc. No issue!.
but that’s not what we op wants. She wants to be rich, in the western world, and lead a life of leisure. Don’t we all….
Please don’t confuse your desire to be a rich lady of leisure with not liking feminism.

We really need more education and awareness about how damaging placing under 3s in nurseries for long hours is. It is far from ideal, Under 3s actually need to form a secure attachment to their mother, not ‘socialise.’ Many mothers wouldn’t use them if they are free, I certainly wouldn’t have done.

Babies/toddlers have genuine needs, grown adults should care more about those than their own wants and convenience.

I agree with you at @ThankYouNigel so what else do you propose? Longer maternity leave / pay?!

Babies/toddlers have genuine needs, grown adults should care more about those than their own wants and convenience.

most families don’t have a choice though due to finances, they are forced to go back to work. It’s sad.

Yes, I actually think a 3 year maternity period should be the norm, instead of the government ploughing tax payer money into free hours, which is not best for children. Germany has far better awareness of the importance of this.

I agree with that, think that’s a very good idea. When I hear of women going back to work so soon after giving birth, I find it heart breaking.

Of course, and that is also wrong. I’ve always maintained that any family should have the option to afford a SAHP, especially prior to starting school. There are massive wider issues with housing prices, food prices, energy bills, petrol, of course. Many women are definitely worse off now because they don’t have the choice to stay at home. Just as in the past they were often prevented from working. Progress is an illusion.

Your post brings out all the arguments in favour of more feminism, not less.
I don't think capitalism as such is the main issue either, I think healthy market competition is a great driver for prosperity, but today's total failure to regulate the largest corporations is killing competition and business itself. Failing to rein in billionaires is tragic (and getting worse as they manipulate politics in their favour).

Yes I agree with you. I think there’s a confusion surrounding what feminism is (and isn’t) and people are confusing it with capitalism. Totally with you that we need to regulate these billionaire companies many of which are flouncing tax and exploiting workers. It’s really pissing me off now, and we don’t get a great service. It’s going in the pocket of CEOs bonuses.

The assumption that feminists control the economy is quite sweet. And very daft. I wish!